MJB
Well-known member
To the sizeable minority who align with the calculations of Bishop Ussher (and others of that time), these lineages certainly are unacceptably ancient!:-O
MJB
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Emberizoidea (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ntbirdman
- Start date
To the sizeable minority who align with the calculations of Bishop Ussher (and others of that time), these lineages certainly are unacceptably ancient!:-O
MJB
Yeah, Icteria was moved to Icteriidae due to lack of resolution as sister group ti Icteridae, but the lead author failed to delete it from Icteridae. It will be fixed in proof.
Cheers
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
I can't think of a good reason for splitting Old World Buntings and New World Sparrows. Buntings differ from each other at least as much as any of them differ from NW sparrows. So a Yellowhammer and Rock Bunting would be in the same family, but Rock Bunting and White-crowned Sparrow in different families?
That argument hinges on a "degree of difference" criterion in determining taxonomic rank. Given that ranking of taxa is an art rather than a science, opinions on the validity of that approach will differ. However, evidence is mounting that buntings and sparrows are not sister taxa, and I don't think you can argue that yellowhammers and rock buntings have less in common than white-crowned sparrows and red-legged honeycreepers. The only way to keep them in the same family would be to bung all the Emberizoidea (warblers, tanagers, sparrows, buntings, blackbirds, etc.) into one family (Emberizidae), as others on this thread have suggested. I wouldn't be surprised to see some taxonomies taking that route, in which case all of the families listed above become subfamilies (still family-level groups governed by the Code).
However, taxonomies are tools that gain at least some of their usefulness from stability. From that perspective, it makes sense to keep recognizing the five families New World ornithologists have been using for many decades, and rearrange the rest to fit, as done here.
Richard Klim
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Passerellidae
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List31.html#emberizidae
John Boyd (TiF) also adopted a split between buntings and New World sparrows:
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List31.html#emberizidae
MichaelRetter
Michael L. P. Retter
Thanks, Richard.
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
If those clades are accurate, and I'm certainly not qualified to dispute them, then they are certainly very surprising!
MichaelRetter
Michael L. P. Retter
Well, for one, many Old World buntings exhibit strong sexual dimorphism, while it's pretty rare (Dark-eyed Junco, Harris's Sparrow, Lark Bunting) in New World sparrows.
Mysticete
Well-known member
I would also say Old World Buntings are on whole more colorful, and having observed both, there is a subtly different jizz in behavior between the two. New World Sparrows IMHO are generally more skulky and outside of the breeding season generally stay closer to the ground.
Ian Lewis
aka Gryllo
NW Sparrows vs OW Buntings
I would say the biggest difference is in bill structure, with OW buntings typically having a more swollen lower mandible with the cutting edge turned downwards near to the point where it meets the gape.
I don't see that many NW sparrows but this feature doesn't seem to be a character of the whole group.
Ian
I would say the biggest difference is in bill structure, with OW buntings typically having a more swollen lower mandible with the cutting edge turned downwards near to the point where it meets the gape.
I don't see that many NW sparrows but this feature doesn't seem to be a character of the whole group.
Ian
Richard Klim
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Passerellidae
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List31.html#passerellidae
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/changes.html (23 Dec 2012)
www.jboyd.net/Taxo/List31.html#passerellidae
Richard Klim
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Last edited:
Richard Klim
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10,000 Birds
David Ringer, 10,000 Birds, 20 Jan 2013: Do nine-primaried oscines represent 16 different families?
David Ringer, 10,000 Birds, 20 Jan 2013: Do nine-primaried oscines represent 16 different families?
Richard Klim
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Icteriidae
Rick Wright, Birding New Jersey and the World, 11 Jul 2014: Who Made that Bird a Warbler, Anyhow?
Rick Wright, Birding New Jersey and the World, 11 Jul 2014: Who Made that Bird a Warbler, Anyhow?
MJB
Well-known member
Richard Klim
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Barker et al 2013 pdf
As Rick demonstrated, there's now free access: Barker et al 2013. Syst Biol 62(2): 298–320. [pdf]
Melanie
Well-known member
Melozone biarcuata
Zootaxa 3895 (1): 103–116 (12 Dec. 2014)
Analysis of plumage, morphology, and voice reveals species-level differences between two subspecies of Prevost’s Ground-sparrow Melozone biarcuata (Prévost and Des Murs) (Aves: Emberizidae)
LUIS SANDOVAL, PIERRE-PAUL BITTON, STÉPHANIE M. DOUCET & DANIEL J. MENNILL
[Abstract]
Zootaxa 3895 (1): 103–116 (12 Dec. 2014)
Analysis of plumage, morphology, and voice reveals species-level differences between two subspecies of Prevost’s Ground-sparrow Melozone biarcuata (Prévost and Des Murs) (Aves: Emberizidae)
LUIS SANDOVAL, PIERRE-PAUL BITTON, STÉPHANIE M. DOUCET & DANIEL J. MENNILL
[Abstract]
Richard Klim
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Richard Klim
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10,000 Birds
David Ringer, 10,000 Birds, 25 Jan 2015: The origins of tanagers, warblers, and sparrows are coming into focus.
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