Cuba or Mexico? (1 Viewer)

[pandachris]

I'll probably cross-post this on the Mexico forum because the Cuba forum seems quite quiet.

We're fancying a two-week holiday in the Caribbean area and have sort of decided on Mexico or Cuba. We're doing some research but haven't yet decided. We seem to have a slight bias that doesn't seem to be based on fact for Cuba at present. Can anyone provide any insights?

We will probably book a package and use the paid for accommodation for the first couple and last couple of nights. Our only other experience of the region is three weeks of fairly intensive birding in Costa Rica, when we managed to visit several of the main habitats. Cancun in Mexico looks like our most likely start/finish point whilst Varadero or Cayo Coco look like probables for Cuba.

Criteria will include

Range of species available
Possibilities for DIY birding (we might well use guides from time to time but like to do it ourselves)
Other wildlife in the region - mammals, reptiles, amphibia
Ease of getting around - including access to rental vehicles with manual transmission
Accommodation in areas where birding is good
Other things to do - for example pre-Colombian civilisation sites, local music
Availability of places to eat (we've been to rural Estonia!)

Cost is important but not the main consideration.

Thanks for any help provided.

 

[GMK]

Cuba

As you don't seem to have had any replies yet, let's see if I can get the ball rolling for you. Let me offer the following remarks solely from the Cuban perspective.

I wouldn't book a package tour, get a flight only and book your accommodation at each site in advance (especially if you do go to Cayo Coco), or try to use casas particulares.

Varadero is not really near any of the main birding sites, albeit not sooo far from Zapata, but you couldn't effectively day-trip the area from your hotel. Cayo Coco is one of the main birding sites, but is quite far from all of the rest of the principal localities to visit, and it would be a right pain to have to drive back there just to get a flight. Unless you like sun, sea, sand and loads of booze holidays, you'll probably find the resort hotels in both Varadero and Cayo Coco at best sufferable, at worst horrible.

Make sure you book a car in advance, otherwise you'll spend more (same goes for hotels). Manual transmission readily available.

Yucatan would win on pre-Columbian history, while Cuba would win on music (latter opinion, former is fact).

Birding alone is relatively easy in both places, especially if you're going to devote two weeks to the exercise. Substantially less time and a guide would be extremely useful. But, in any case, note that those parts of the Zapata Peninsula within the NP should only be visited with a local guide (per the on-site regulations). In both cases, comprehensive site guide books are available (if I say so myself). For Mexico see Howell (1999), for Cuba, see below!

 

[Jim M.]

No recent personal experience, but the ongoing drug war in Mexico makes me leery of venturing to that country for the time being. Would want a lot of recent info about conditions in my target areas before deciding to go there.

Best,
Jim

 

[jthoppes]

I wouldn't anticipate any problems related to drug violence in the Cancun area; much of the drug-related violence in Mexico is in the northern borderlands, which are rarely visited by birders. (For the record: I flew into Cancun for birding and ruins in June 2008, and had no problems whatsoever.)

 

[Jim M.]

I wouldn't anticipate any problems related to drug violence in the Cancun area; much of the drug-related violence in Mexico is in the northern borderlands, which are rarely visited by birders. (For the record: I flew into Cancun for birding and ruins in June 2008, and had no problems whatsoever.)

That was my understanding, but I've recently heard reports of brazen kidnappings in Veracruz, for example. Here's some newsclips:

BBC says (note that Michoacan and Guerrero are not on the border but in the SW on the pacific coast):

Mexico's northern border towns are experiencing the worst of the violence. Ciudad Juarez (just across from El Paso in Texas) is the city suffering the most. There are also high levels of violence in Michoacan and Guerrero states. However, Mexico is a large country, and there are still many areas where the serious crime rate is unexceptional. The overall murder rate is lower than several other countries in the region, including El Salvador and Honduras: 11.6 murders per 100,000 inhabitants, against 51.8 and 60.9 respectively.
​

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10681249

Here's a wikipedia map showing the states with the most conflict in red (not sure what they are measuring though):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mexican_States_with_mafia_conflicts.png

Best,
Jim

 

[ehrodz]

I wouldn't anticipate any problems related to drug violence in the Cancun area; much of the drug-related violence in Mexico is in the northern borderlands, which are rarely visited by birders. (For the record: I flew into Cancun for birding and ruins in June 2008, and had no problems whatsoever.)

Many areas of Mexico including Yucatan were safe in 2008 but things have changed for the worse in many parts of Mexico including the Cancun area in the past two years. I think Jim's take on the violence situation in Mexico is basically correct. Check an area's very recent history with violence before going there because things change very quickly. Also be aware that some of the information available is limited because news sources are afraid to report them. I live on the border and we don't get news of many of the violent events that occur just a couple of miles away acorss the river.

 

[pandachris]

Thanks folks.

The package tour options aren't actually much more expensive than independent trravel, and have the 'convenience' of somewhere to stay or arrival/departure or even to use as a base, if suitably located. We've done similar things in Morocco and India quite successfully. However for a two-week plus break then DIY sounds better. Also flights to Cuba seem to have dropped in price a little since late December.

Might sound a little precious or maybe downright foolish but safety isn't necessarily our number one priority when travelling. That doesn't mean we would ignore clear risks completely but we don't dwell too long on them. I suspect that the risk of hiring a car in unfamiliar surroundings is greater than the threat of organised crime/drug gangs.

Anyway, it's probably moot, because despite the lure of the Mayans, Cuba is looking like our destination of choice. I'll be back after more info soon, I should think.

 

[seedyrom]

We are going to Cuba for 2 weeks in March. We booked the flights last year. I have tried to organise a guide but without any success! I think we will end up doing it ourselves by hiring a car, staying in casas particuliers and investing in a phrasebook! Our purpose in visiting is twofold: see the birds, see Cuba as it is now. All information welcome!!

 

[pandachris]

Flights booked. You'll presumably be back a few weeks before we go, so pass on any tips that you come up with. I'm sure two weeks isn't enough to do justice to Cuba but it should give us a flavour. Found any decent field guides, Where to watch ... etc?

 

[seedyrom]

Certainly will pass on any useful stuff. So far struggling with an itinerary - not got long enough! Have bought the Helm Field Guide "Birds of Cuba" and ordered Guy Kirwan's book. Got feelers out with various companies about arranging a tour but will probably end up booking everything ourselves! It costs £40 a day to hire a driver - that's all his costs payable locally. But lazy but saves us driving if knackered plus he should (?) know the roads.

 

[pandachris]

There are some pretty good trip reports on travellingbirder.com that seem to set out a fairly interesting itinerary for a couple of weeks, that will allow for a bit more than just birding. We're there for May Day so might go far an slight interruption and head back to Havana.

 

[seedyrom]

Yes _ I have ploughed my way through quite a lot!

We have decided to miss out Camaguey as it is such a long way to drive. Hopefully we will be able to visit Cuba again sometime. again. At the moment we are planning on 2 nights in Havana, 2 in Soroa, 4 in Playa Largo, 2 in Trinidad, 2 in Moron and 1 back in Havana. We are also looking at staying in casas particuliers instead of hotels. Infinitely cheaper and not worth paying for amenities we are unlikely to use.

We will hire a car - not decided where from yet.

We did try contacting a few agencies about organising everything but they were useless.

I am currently waiting for Guy Kirwin's book to arrive and am trying to get hold of bird guides but drawing a blank. Either the contact details I have are wrong or they aren't interested. If anyone can help me with this, I would be very grateful!

 

[pandachris]

Think we're going to do the reverse of what seems to be the 'normal' circuit, heading off for Moron/Cayo Coco, then Camaguey then Zapata and back to Havana for May Day followed by a few days west of Havana.

Please let me know if you get any details for guides.

 

[pandachris]

seedyrom

How's your planning going? Have you made contact with any guides yet?

 

[seedyrom]

Hi, Pandachris

 

[seedyrom]

Hi Pandachris

I'll try again! Think we are sorted with some guides in Zapata and round Cayo Coco.

Busy looking at bird reports and seeing what is likely to be around then looking up calls and pictures to put on my i-pod. We also have the Helm "Birds of Cuba" and the Birdwatcher's Guide to "Birds of Cuba etc" And a map. Not changed our route. Bought myself a Teach Yourself Spanish course too! Really looking forward to getting away.

 

[pandachris]

Sounds good. Any chance you can send me the guide details?

Spanish won't be a problem. My other half is fluent and my eldest, who will be joining us in Havana is now three months into his 'gap-yah' in Latin America and has taken a couple of crash courses in Spanish whilst he's been there. I'll let them do the talking

I got the Birdsongs of Cuba CD as a Valentine's present so I'll be learing some of the voices before we go.

 

[seedyrom]

Have you made a note of any of the guides used in trip reports?
We are using Angelo Garcia at Zapata. He and his brother Orestes can be contacted [email protected]
Our guide at Caya Coco is being arranged for us through a hotel But Oday Martinez comes highly recommended. His address is Calle Novena #28 entre 12 y Final, Moron.
May be able to be more helpful when we get back.

 

[cassowary]

Going back to the original question Cuba or Mexico? I recently returned from a trip to SE AZ and NM and chatting with local birders they all say they have stopped venturing into Mexico. Apparently it is now common for 'seasonal' Mexican workers to fly into the US to avoid the border towns. I was going to book a quick trip over to Guatemala but decided against it due to the increased violence there. It seems that the situation is getting worse and not just confined to the US border towns. Unfortunately I think it is only a matter of time before the violence hits the Yucatan in a newsworthy way. The Yucatan is not really a top birding/wildlife destination anyway.
Anyway seedyrom, I hope you enjoy your trip to Cuba.

 

[pandachris]

Thanks both.

Seedyrom - I've got some of the details from the reports, yes, but anything really up to date you can come up with is bound to be useful. Also, will you be using ATMs? It seems they are few and far between o/s Havana so if you spot any it would be good to know. Don't fancy taking huge wads of cash or Travellers Cheques.