Cost vs Durability - Plastic Body (1 Viewer)

[John A Roberts]

One way to reduce cost and save weight in binoculars is by the use of various plastics for structural components.
But there may be tradeoffs . . .

A current eBay listing by bavarian-motor-works shows a Leupold BX-2 Alpine HD 8x42 that’s become a contender in the optical world’s Darwin Awards.

The text notes 'unit is new but it's broken (into) two piece as you can see in the pictures'. There's no explanation as to what happened.

And it goes on to show Leupold’s advertising copy:




Although sold as a Leupold product, it is of course similar to products offered by other companies . . .


John

 

[Binocollector]

Interesting - just today I was using my new Omegon "spacewalk" 2x54, 36° bino and thought, 'this thing will last forever, it's made from just metal and glass'. I'm always skeptical when too much plastic is involved even though I do own a few 'plastic' binos like the Nikon P7. But I do prefer a magnesium or aluminum chassis. That being said, my good old Japanese binos from the 70s are cast metal which can be just as brittle, so best is probably to never drop a bino, no matter what material it's made from.

 

[Ted Y.]

Steiner uses Makrolon® for the binoculars. It is light and described as "rugged chassis". I do not know what "withstands 11 Gs of impact" means practically.
The interest for me is that the interior resists to impacts. In some binoculars "floating prisms" are used for better protection.
And the best protection is a long warranty with good service.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi BC (post #2),

Yes, prevention is usually the best way to go.

And one way to avoid spills and thrills when using binoculars (and cameras) is by good habits.
e.g. When using a binocular hand-held, to first place the neck strap over your head; or at least wrap it around your wrist.

With small binoculars and an actual wrist strap, an alternative is to adjust the length of the strap so that you can:
place your thumb through the loop with the strap going across the back of the hand, and then grasp the binocular.

It’s an old police technique for use with a baton. It encourages you to maintain at least a loose hold on a binocular,
compared to the temptation to allow the binocular to hang and swing from your wrist, and the likely problems from that.
It also gives the option that if you need to be quickly free of a binocular, to simply open your hand,
and point your thumb in the direction of the binocular.


John

 

[Bino Steve]

I'd buy those Leupolds in a second if under $50. Why ? Send it to Leupold and they'll fix it or replace it for free. No matter what happened or who owns it. Why rarely see a junk Leupold anything laying around ever. I know other companies do same. Maven, etc

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Steve,

Leupold does offer a Lifetime Warranty. But the 'seller' may have decided that this is the best way to publicise what he thinks of the quality of their product!


John

 

[Bino Steve]

Yes, certainly. However BX-2 was lower end unit. I agree that plastic and composites will never feel like metal does. I hate pulling the rubber off my Pentax or Nikon and seeing those plastic barrels and threads. Yuck.

 

[Thotmosis]

Steiner and Zeiss FL use non metal materials for their binocular casings but I guess it's not the same as the plastic components of this Leopold.

Prevention to damage: I always put covers on the objectives and lenses, even when walking short distance in easy terrain or at home. It became a habit after all this hiking in difficult terrain. Also at home I first place the neck strap over my head, I insist people who use my binoculars do the same! I keep my pocket binocular always in my shirt pocket with the strap around my neck, ready for action.

 

[John A Roberts]

The Steiner Porros have been discussed many times before. For a start see: Best mechanically built binoculars today ?

I’ve never understood what the different price points for the similar appearing binoculars actually mean, in terms of features and value.
e.g. looking at a screen grab from the BH Photo site:
The top of the range 8x30 Military is US $1,000, while the 8x30 Military Marine - with the shock resistant floating prism system - is only $280!



So how in what's an essentially simple design, is one worth over three times the other?


- - - -
Unlike the Steiners, the Zeiss FL’s have a complex fibre glass reinforced polyamide and magnesium body,
which has seemed to have fared far better over the years.
See a couple of pages from the original 2004 brochure, and another image clearly showing the the complexity of the construction.









- - - -
And for images of three more binoculars that had bad outcomes see: CL Pocket Focuser Mechanism


John

 

[Thotmosis]

The Steiner Porros have been discussed many times before. For a start see: Best mechanically built binoculars today ?

Thanks John.

So how in what's an essentially simple design, is one worth over three times the other?

Very strange indeed if they contain the same lenses. The only difference would be the recticle.

Unlike the Steiners, the Zeiss FL’s have a complex fibre glass reinforced polyamide and magnesium body,
which has seemed to have fared far better over the years.
See a couple of pages from the original 2004 brochure, and another image clearly showing the the complexity of the construction.

I'm fascinated by the Zeiss FL serie, dreaming about it even ... so i think have to get one!

 

[Maljunulo]

The physical properties of metals and polymers are, and will probably be forever, different.

To argue that they are equivalent is idle.

Has any manufacturer been proven to put an identical to their top-grade optical train in an other-than-metal housing and market it at a lower price?

 

[Bino Steve]

Most. Not all, but most manufacturers would be happy to find a way to mass produce product (equals more money), while maintaining quality, and plastics is the way to achieve that. The side affects, which they are happy to advertise, are possibly lighter, possibly more thermally stable, possibly less lemons. But you get chunkier, clunkier product as you can't have tight radius corners. You may need metal inserts to accept threads, which means wider base of plastic to accept that insert. More flex is possible at weak points, and of course breakage if excessive bending. And the human aspect of less employees to make these plastic wonders.
Knowing these weaknesses is why they have to offer free replacement. But the manufacturing process used also means they can, because one is popping off the assembly line every few minutes. I doubt any honest binoculars mfg went to plastics to help us out. In 100 years, the Thrift stores will still have 1950s metal body Bushnells on the shelves, not a one of the modern plastic wonders.

 

[Binastro]

I am not sure plastics don't last.

A Fairy liquid bottle recently washed up on a beach pristine from the 1960s I think.
The price on it was pre decimal currency.

It may well be that some plastics last 500 years, where some metals may be dust.

Regards,
B.

 

[kimmik]

When plastics were expensive, they were made into carefully designed durable expensive products for their beneficial qualities.

When plastics became cheap, they were made into cheap products with no consideration for durability and their weaknesses started to manifest.

We are in phase 2.

 

[Rg548]

FL's are bombproof, and they feel great.
Plastic/composite construction. 👍

 

[AlphaFan]

Unlike the Steiners, the Zeiss FL’s have a complex fibre glass reinforced polyamide and magnesium body,
which has seemed to have fared far better over the years.

Hi John,

Over the years there have been numerous discussions of the FL bodies with many aficionados referring to their bodies and construction as simply ”plastic.” Having owned several FLs I would describe their composite construction as quite robust and durable. Their texture is not at all slippery and comfortable to the touch in cold weather. The only anomaly I’ve noticed is over time and in some environments a mild form of surface oxidation can begin to develop that is easy to clean off.

Have you ever heard of an FL body failing or breaking such as was the case with the Leupold?

 

[fazalmajid]

IIRC Troubador had an interview with Gerold Dobler of Zeiss where he said Zeiss went back to metal construction because the reinforced plastic in the FL had become a marketing liability, not due to any actual durability issues. This from a company that likes to shoot videos demonstrating their binoculars’ durability by running a car over them.

Update: An interview with Gerold Dobler, leader of the SF design team

Low weight has been a priority with SF although Zeiss appears to have reacted to market pressure by moving away from the GRP body of FL to a magnesium alloy. Do you think that you have gone as far as it is possible to go with weight reduction while staying with a metal body? If so, what do you think might be the next step?

Magnesium alloy is used more and more for different applications and the supply is getting better so the price has come down a little from previous times and a full metal housing has a very strong image in the premium market and to be practical it does provide a certain ruggedness. It’s a good solution, it has a good image and a reasonable price, so I expect it will be the standard material in the premium sector for some years.

 

[Uncle Meat]

There's an old adage 'Buy cheap buy twice' That normally holds true in my book.

 

[Bino Steve]

...and there you go, Zeiss admitting Metal better, and price reasonable enough to go back to it. Case closed.

 

[AlphaFan]

Certainly agree Faz, FL sales were certainly impacted by stigma and bias vs actual robustness and build quality. Was just looking at my Victory SFs and FLs side-by-side. Love them both, but have zero doubt which would fare better if run through the Conquest torture test.