Budget camera to pair with Olympus 100-400mm Lens (1 Viewer)

[mattpitts74]

Hi All,

I'm heading off to Costa Rica in Feb and still trying to figure out my best options for photography. I think I have narrowed it down to a secondhand Olympus 100-400 lens. Now looking for an affordable secondhand body?

I was thinking one of these options

Pansonic G85 cheap secondhand
Pansaoinc G9 is not so cheap
Olympus ME1 has various versions and prices.

Any advice from users of any of these cameras with this lens would be much appreciated.

 

[Jim M.]

Oly EM-1 mk.ii is still close to state of the art. It doesn't have bird AI focus assist, but has most everything else you'd want for bird photography. It's lighter than the G9. (Also, PL 100-400mm is lighter than Oly 100-400 btw; if that's important to you.)

 

[njlarsen]

I have used the pana G85 for a long time. The EM-1-ii might be better for bird-in-flight photography (or was that only with mk-iii?) but for everything else I have been happy with this camera. You can watch a good number of my photos here in the gallery: Media added by njlarsen

The G9-i would have more pixels and a little better for BIF, but I do not have personal experience with it.
Niels

Edit: When I say I have been happy: I am thinking about an upgrade to the OM1 or G9-ii, but neither of those are in your price range, I believe.

 

[Jim M.]

he EM-1-ii might be better for bird-in-flight photography (or was that only with mk-iii?)

There are no significant upgrades in the mk iii vs mk ii for bird photography. I recently got the OM-1, and other than bird AI and some other bells and whistles, don't find any major improvements compared to the EM-1 ii for bird photography.

 

[kb57]

G9 is a good camera for still photography and has a data window on the top plate (which I really find useful), a rare feature in M4/3 - the current firmware update includes a 'bird' mode but overall I don't find it as good as a DSLR for BIF (albeit using cheaper Panasonic 100-300 lens). It's also a lot cheaper than it used to be, especially as the G9ii is now out.

 

[mattpitts74]

Thanks all for the useful info. I've shot FF Canon EOS 5mark iii professionally for events photography for years, but never had a lens with enough reach for birds. I've occasionally dabbled with M43, but never for wildlife/bird etc.

Unfortunately, I cannot begin to afford any of the Cannon zoom lens that would get me vaguely close enough to small birds! Plus it's not practical for travelling either. Hence looking at M43 to get the extra reach and compact size. But I'm concerned about the low light with small sensors. I appreciate its always a compromise, especially when on a budget. Just want to try and get the best bang for the buck.

Anyway, a secondhand Olympus 100-400 and Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II comes to around £1400 ($1700) so that is still a lot of money,

Do I need much reach? or should I look at a secondhand lens and convertor for the Canon?

 

[njlarsen]

If you have decent post processing software, you can get decent photos using m4/3 in low light. Many of my images in the gallery were shot at iso 3200. If (when?) I upgrade to a newer model, I certainly expect to be able to use iso 6400. The images will not be completely the same quality as a full frame with a fast lens, but for me personally, such a setup would be on a shelf back home due to size and weight (if I could even afford it).

By the way, a quick search online shows that the pixel pitch (which must be a way of talking about size of the pixel) is
3.32 µm (EM1-2)
3.36 microns (OM1)
3.20 microns (Canon r7)
So the canon r7 actually has a smaller pixel!

F-number at max zoom:
7.1 (canon 100-500)
6.3 (Oly 100-400 and pana 100-400)

So which setup should in theory have the better low light performance at max zoom? These setups would have about the same reach. Newer sensor probably performs a little better in low light, but I guess not by a mile?

Niels

 

[Elkhornsun]

You get the best image stabilization when using an Olympus OS type lens with an Olympus camera. I would not hesitate to buy a used Olympus E-M1 Mark III or Mark IX camera. Succeeding generations have better noise reduction and better autofocus performance. The latest models also have Pro Capture whereby the camera buffers dozens of frames (with Raw format) before the shutter is released and this is great for bird photography where one cannot determine exactly when the bird is going to take off.

The Olympus OS lenses include the 40-150mm f/2.8 and the 100-400mm f/5 to f/6.3 IS lens. Another lens worth taking to Costa Rica is the Olympus 90mm f/3.5 macro lens. It provides the field of view of a 180mm lens on a full frame camera and is great for photographing small frogs and butterflies and small vipers. Best to use with an Olympus compatible flash like the Godox flash with a remote trigger so the trigger is on the camera's hot shoe and the flash can be held off to one side.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1696586-REG/godox_tt685ii_on_camera_flash.html

 

[Jim M.]

You get the best image stabilization when using an Olympus OS type lens with an Olympus camera. I would not hesitate to buy a used Olympus E-M1 Mark III or Mark IX camera. Succeeding generations have better noise reduction and better autofocus performance.

Unfortunately, the oly 100-400mm lens does not provide dual image stabilization with olympus bodies.

Did you mean EM-1 mark ii or mark iii? There is no mark IX.

 

[Jim M.]

But I'm concerned about the low light with small sensors.

With a canon, you will be cropping more with bird photos than with M4/3 using the same length lens. That effectively means you are working with a similar sized sensor.

In any event, the low light performance of oly m4/3 sensors improved greatly from the Oly EM-1 mk. i to the mk. ii. There is probably a small improvement in the OM-1. And, as Niels suggested, using noise reduction software can greatly reduce any issues with noise. I recommend DxO pure raw.

As for needing more reach, I think going from 300mm to 400mm with micro 4/3rds greatly increased the number of keepers I had with bird photography.

 

[njlarsen]

As for needing more reach, I think going from 300mm to 400mm with micro 4/3rds greatly increased the number of keepers I had with bird photography.

At least with the copy of Pana 100-300 I used, the lens needed to be zoomed back a little to produce sharp images while I do not have that concern with the 100-400.
Niels

 

[MelospizaMelodiaFan]

@mattpitts74 I purchased all second hand equipment: E-M1ii and Zuiko 100-400. I paid around $600 USD for the body. You can see my gallery here, I have shot thousands of images with it since I acquired the setup in September of this year. I don't know what kind of photography you are interested in, but I am happy with this setup in most situations. AF is fast, the camera powers on in a second, and it is weatherproofed. I don't like the results at 400mm, so I dial it back to around 330mm. There is a gentleman on this forum who uses the full 400, so I guess it depends on your particular lens. Don't expect to get razor sharp shots every time with this much focal length. I try to steady myself with good posture or support, and I shoot in bursts in hopes to get a sharp image.

I would say its weakness is birds-in-flight. It does fine when the bird is against the sky; when against a more complex background, the bird is most often out of focus. This is the case with a lot of cameras, but this is where subject detection AI comes into play. It's too rich for me at the moment, so I make do as best I can with the gear I have. It is possible to get good BIFs; your keeper rate just won't be as high. Of the M43 bodies I know of, the OM-1, E-M1x and the G9, G9ii have animal detection. Yesterday, I was shooting northern harriers from an elevated position, and most of my shots had the background in focus. However, I got some keepers because I kept shooting.

I am still messing around with which focus setup is best for BIF; newer bodies may allow you to customize the sensor pattern. I am using 9x9, but the cross shape is worth experimenting with. Matthieu Gasquet's tests are nicely summed up in this article, and he has recommended settings as well. I go back multiple times to cross reference his experience with mine.

In the end, every setup has limitations and workarounds. The most important thing is to keep using it and getting better at photography. Good luck!

P.S. whatever you get, make sure you UPDATE FIRMWARE!

 

[Jim M.]

I would say its weakness is birds-in-flight. It does fine when the bird is against the sky; when against a more complex background, the bird is most often out of focus. This is the case with a lot of cameras

I was on a tour in 2019 with my EM-1 mkii and two other participants had the latest nikon full frame cameras that were supposed to have the latest and greatest autofocus. (This was before bird AI). My camera struggled with birds in flight against busy backgrounds, but it turned out the nikon guys had the same problems in the same situations. So I agree it's a problem for most cameras.

I also got better shots on the pelagics than they did because their big full frame lenses had a minimum focus around 20 feet, and lots of birds were coming closer than that. (The m4/3 long lenses have minimum focus of about 4 feet.)

 

[MelospizaMelodiaFan]

I was on a tour in 2019 with my EM-1 mkii and two other participants had the latest nikon full frame cameras that were supposed to have the latest and greatest autofocus. (This was before bird AI). My camera struggled with birds in flight against busy backgrounds, but it turned out the nikon guys had the same problems in the same situations. So I agree it's a problem for most cameras.

I also got better shots on the pelagics than they did because their big full frame lenses had a minimum focus around 20 feet, and lots of birds were coming closer than that. (The m4/3 long lenses have minimum focus of about 4 feet.)

I met a fellow yesterday on the hill where I was shooting; he had a Canon R5 full frame body (with bird AI) that cost him $4k. His shots on instagram are awesome. It gives me something to aim for. I'm not giving all the credit to the camera, because he knew exactly what he was doing. It will be a fun journey getting to his level.

 

[seawatcher]

Unfortunately, the oly 100-400mm lens does not provide dual image stabilization with olympus bodies.

Did you mean EM-1 mark ii or mark iii? There is no mark IX.

I wonder if he meant the E-M1X (with the numeral 1, not the letter I before the X)? I started on the M43 road with the E-M1X and the 100-400mm. Got good results with the E-M1X. Using the E-M1 mark iii produces identical results to the E-M1X, but in a smaller, lighter package. I now have the OM-1, which I use most of the time, but the E-M1X and E-M1 mark iii are both good enough for bird photography that I am not selling them. I take the E-M1 mark iii on longer trips as a back-up, and the E-M1X I use in a camera trap. Basically, any of the E-M1-series or the OM-1 should give really nice results. As regards stabilsation in the 100-400mm lens then the lack of dual stabilisation means that you cannot synchronise the lens and camera (something which you can with the Olympus / OM System Pro lenses. But as the newer cameras have in-body stabilisation (IBIS), then you do get some stabilisation using the 100-400mm lens. I have managed satisfactory results with the lens and with IBIS turned on at shutter speeds down to 1/30 second.
There are often good bargains on M43 gear, so keep checking the classified adverts, especially just after Christmas.
SW

 

[Jim M.]

.....Basically, any of the E-M1-series or the OM-1 should give really nice results. ....

As I indicated above, the EM-1 mk ii or above is where I think the sweet spot is in these cameras (I have owned and used the mk i, mk ii, and OM-1; was never even tempted to upgrade to the mkiii – it was basically the same camera as the mk ii for bird photography purposes). The mk i only has a 16 megapixel sensor (so more limited ability to crop and zoom) and subsequent sensors handled noise in low light much better. There was no improvement from the mk ii sensor in the mk iii or the heavy EM-1X, and a small improvement in the OM-1.

 

[MelospizaMelodiaFan]

E-M1x has bird detection, while the E-M1iii does not. E-M1x has the additional processing power to execute the code in a timely fashion; E-M1iii's processor is not fast enough. OM-1 is the best of both worlds with a small body and AI processing power.

Honestly, I would love bird detection in older bodies by reducing burst rate. I would take 3 or 4 fps, if it meant I would get 3 sharp images versus ten blurry ones. But that is not going to happen.

 

[mattpitts74]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions and input, it's great to hear people's experiences with this combo. I'm still in two minds. I already have Canon gear and I'm slightly loathed to buy into another system, although I hear the benefits. I've managed to get hold of a Sigma 150-600 and have been testing it on the 5d3 and R6. The sigma is big and heavy and the focus seems rather hit-and-miss, especially in lower light on the mirrorless R6. Especially with the current grey days here in the UK, I've had to push the iso to get a fast enough shutter speed. So I worry that the smaller sensor will be nosier still. If only money was no object!!!

So I'm still in a quandary about what to do, Any other thoughts or suggestions??

 

[Jim M.]

Especially with the current grey days here in the UK, I've had to push the iso to get a fast enough shutter speed. So I worry that the smaller sensor will be nosier still. If only money was no object!!!

So I'm still in a quandary about what to do, Any other thoughts or suggestions??

How many of your shots fill the frame with the bird, so you don't need to crop? Unless many do, or come close, you are unlikely to get any noise advantage from the larger sensor. (Edit: Note also your 600mm lens still has less reach than the olympus lens on a m4/3 camera, which is 800mm equivalent). As indicated above, cropping necessarily increases noise. I don't see what money has to do with it. Any lens for your Canons that is going get you close enough to give you a noise advantage is going to be very big and heavy.

Also, I usually shoot up to ISO 6400 with my EM-1 mk ii. In tropical forests, these will sometimes look good straight out of the camera, but if they don't, the latest noise reduction software can work minor miracles. Also, fyi, the bird tour company Tropical Birding now outfits all their guides with m4/3 cameras. So they obviously believe they are a good setup for bird photography in the tropics.

I think we've addressed your concerns multiple times on this. If you need more opinions, I'd suggest posting your question on noise on the dpreview micro 4/3 forum: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/104

 

[lmans66]

Get something waterproof....the tropics are rainy but also humid. Not good for some cameras.

Try an waterproof Olympus OM 5 Mark 111....waterproof and relatively cheap and you can use it for other things than just birding. I haven't tried but 100-300 or whatever their zoom range is would be perfect for it would be a 2x on a Full frame giving you anywhere from 600 or perhaps 800 on the (400 lens)..... Jim