white x pied wagtail hybrid? 21.04.2014 konstanz, southern germany (1 Viewer)

[lou salomon]

hi,

among a scattered flock of about 12 white wagtails resting and feeding on the banks of bodensee/rhine river i saw this striking indvidual. first impression was - wow, a pied wagtail (which is a vagrant here). however, already when viewing it through bins it was clear that it was no clearcut male yarellii :C
then i saw the dodgy pics i took which are good enough though to see some crucial details: mantle appeared mostly blackish grey (but more so on its right side! see pics 1 and 2), white tips to middle greater coverts were extensive, matching pied. flanks were considerably extensive dark but many male alba can show a similar extent. and then the rump: not blackish but medium dark grey. best assessed probably in the last pic. note the interesting different shades of grey on upperside: black nape hardly contrasting with blackish-grey upper mantle, then a pale "silverback" area and a blackish "band" on lower back, again followed by the palest area of the upperparts on upper rump, then a medium to dark grey rump and blackish utcs.

it somewhat resembles the bird in pic 335 (but with darker flanks) in this paper: http://www.digimages.info/bergri/Wagtails_MotacillaAlba&Yarrellii_DB32-4_2010.pdf

hybrid?
peter a., what's your thoughts on this?

 

[Nutcracker]

Certainly looks like a hybrid between the two!

Have to admit, if it was over here, I'd barely take a second glance and just assume it was a Pied.

 

[lou salomon]

bump. any non-brit with a view as how reliable such ind. can be assessed in e central european context as either hybrids or rather calling them "white wag with features of pied" and a big question mark...?

 

[Samuel Perfect]

This pic of your bird http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=495033&d=1399227318 looks quite similar to this pic http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=493785&d=1398609767 from Nick Derry's earlier thread regarding the possibility of a hybrid Pied/White. Unfortunately, the thread didn't go very far, although I expect that is due to the difficult of confidently IDing such a hybrid.

 

[mäkpe]

I've learnt to call these kind of individuals hybrids. Can't remember that I've ever seen a term like "white wag with features of pied" used
Hybrid is relatively straight forward to ID if the bird is adult male. Otherwise it's a minefield.

 

[smiths]

Hi Lou,
I agree that this is most likely a hybrid.
It strongly resembles a male yarrellii, which can show scattered grey patches on mantle and/or scapulars, but a completely grey rump is something I have never seen in that subspecies.

 

[lou salomon]

thanks a lot folks!

 

[JANJ]

As it looks like an adult bird it can hardly show a resemlance to a male yarrellii, but a female though. Otherwise a hybrid would be a good choice.

JanJ