UK Deer Population (1 Viewer)

[Loud Green Man]

Hopefully the right place for this but Mods feel free to move please.

I note DEFRA (UK Government Department) is inviting responses to their assertion that the UK deer population is, to all intent and purpose, out of control and therefore justifies a much increased and better coordinated cull:

Deer management strategy

We're seeking views in this consultation on key proposals for a new deer management strategy.

www.gov.uk

Genuinely interested in what birders think of this and therefore I’m not going to assert my view other than to observe the answer is clearly not to have a suitable number of reintroduced apex predators such as wolf roaming the meadows and paddocks of the Home Counties.

LGM

 

[Mono]

Have read through the consultation briefing I can see no mention of a coordinated cull. The proposals seem to be:-
Make deer shooting easier (no closed season for males, allow night shooting) and more complicated (forced competency levels).

Force landowners to be responsible for deer on their land.

Possibly treat deer-park deer as livestock?

Possible incentives (tax breaks? I don't see it being hard cash) for control of deer in forestry.

Do something about muntjac! The only substantive open question on the consultation. Shooting is the only control method they have considered for the rest of the consultation and that isn't really a large scale option with muntjac.

 

[Farnboro John]

Hopefully the right place for this but Mods feel free to move please.

I note DEFRA (UK Government Department) is inviting responses to their assertion that the UK deer population is, to all intent and purpose, out of control and therefore justifies a much increased and better coordinated cull:

Deer management strategy

We're seeking views in this consultation on key proposals for a new deer management strategy.

www.gov.uk

Genuinely interested in what birders think of this and therefore I’m not going to assert my view other than to observe the answer is clearly not to have a suitable number of reintroduced apex predators such as wolf roaming the meadows and paddocks of the Home Counties.

LGM

Well I think it is, it would have fringe benefits like dealing with feral dogs, feral cats, feral teenagers and would still not cause the number of human deaths and injuries we accept from drivers. It would also provide employment for shepherding and other livestock guards.

However the Tory morons have clearly decided there's a new way to let them shoot more, so consultation will be pointless and the result is predetermined.

Anything that falls into "all too difficult" (like Muntjac) won't be dealt with however bad it gets.

John

 

[Loud Green Man]

Coordinated was a poor choice of word. I should have just said a much increased cull. That said if such is to be achieved there certainly needs to be greater dialog with those landowners who do not wish to see deer shot:

“Force landowners to be responsible for deer on their land.”

LGM

 

[Sangahyando]

Is there any reason there are still half a dozen or so invasive deer species in the UK? Like, are any of them threatened within their native range? If not, you could start with eating all of those, and then see if that does anything.

 

[Mono]

Chinese Water Deer in the UK are a large proportion of the world population. Some genetic studies show the UK type population is actually extinct in China. It is spreading slowly from its East Anglia core but not really what you call invasive. The French have eradicated their population but the conservation argument for eradicating the UK population is dodgy.

Fallow were introduced in the 11th Century as a hunting target and are widespread throughout southern Britain and spreading. The problem with eradicating Fallow is they are the quintessential deer-park deer and the public opposition would be huge.

Muntjac are a Victorian import that escaped from the country houses and wide spread in southern England and spreading fast. I wouldn't imagine there would much opposition to eradication of Muntjac, they are curse of Daily Mail reading gardeners. The main problem is that they are small and skulking, any shooting campaign would be very costly and in no way covered by venison sales.

Sika are patchily distributed and don't seem to be spreading much although they are hybridising with Red Deer. They were introduced as a shooting target as they were deemed to be easier to manage than Red Deer. The problem with eradication is that they are largely on shooting estates and they don't want eradication and vote Tory!

 

[Loud Green Man]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting eradication albeit a stated intention of such in the context of Muntjac might be sensible.

I found the following rather interesting as it is a dramatic example of a rejuvenated habitat after removal of non native species:

Driving out invasive species on islands has high success rate and big benefits – study

New research finds that eradicating non-native rats, cats, rabbits and goats is 88% effective in restoring biodiversity

www.theguardian.com

The question that arises from this is how significant would be the improvement in UK habitat with say a 75% reduction in the deer population and what species would be the winners?

The irony for me in this proposal is there is no allied drive to reduce the grey squirrel population that impacts woodland (trees) significantly more than deer.

LGM

 

[Farnboro John]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting eradication albeit a stated intention of such in the context of Muntjac might be sensible.

I found the following rather interesting as it is a dramatic example of a rejuvenated habitat after removal of non native species:

Driving out invasive species on islands has high success rate and big benefits – study

New research finds that eradicating non-native rats, cats, rabbits and goats is 88% effective in restoring biodiversity

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 1463018

The question that arises from this is how significant would be the improvement in UK habitat with say a 75% reduction in the deer population and what species would be the winners?

The irony for me in this proposal is there is no allied drive to reduce the grey squirrel population that impacts woodland (trees) significantly more than deer.

LGM

That's because Tories don't get a kick out of shooting them and prefer not to eat them - they consider that's work for their gamekeeper minions who in turn think they have enough to do without that. It's also because if Greys were eradicated Reds would return and the historical record shows they did the same damage (and historically paid the price for it) but now nobody would let nobs shoot Tufty.

If however the nobs do nothing till the Greys have eliminated the Reds, they win all ends up. Eradicate Greys and do nothing about replacing absent Reds: job's a good'un.

John

 

[jurek]

Given newspaper articles how many Britons are forced to save on food, this excess of deer may not last long.

Actually, the current economic crisis may have a silver lining – freeing Britain from introduced animals. Allow unlimited take and sale by those who can demonstrate they identify the species. It may be e.g. so that any shot wildlife must be presented for ID. All Canada Geese, Egyptian Geese, feral Muscovies, Sika, Fallow Deer, Muntjacs, invasive fish and crayfish will be consumed within a year.

The biggest problem may be killing native species together with exotics. And also, as others pointed, people being accidentally shot. Well, the biggest problem may be bureaucracy unable to make and enforce the legislation in a sensible way.

 

[Loud Green Man]

That's because Tories don't get a kick out of shooting them and prefer not to eat them - they consider that's work for their gamekeeper minions who in turn think they have enough to do without that. It's also because if Greys were eradicated Reds would return and the historical record shows they did the same damage (and historically paid the price for it) but now nobody would let nobs shoot Tufty.

If however the nobs do nothing till the Greys have eliminated the Reds, they win all ends up. Eradicate Greys and do nothing about replacing absent Reds: job's a good'un.

John

Let’s not see this thread consigned to “Ruffled Feathers” please.

There’s plenty to debate without resorting to class warfare tropes.

K

 

[Farnboro John]

Let’s not see this thread consigned to “Ruffled Feathers” please.

There’s plenty to debate without resorting to class warfare tropes.

K

Shooting is a class warfare and even more a political party issue along with fox hunting. Only angling remains outside it, and even then the behaviour of the Tory Government at the outset of the pandemic, giving all anglers a bye on lockdown so salmon fishers could still go out has definitely changed the landscape there.

That doesn't make it automatically "Ruffled Feathers" material or nearly all Conservation topics would have to be in there.

John