Swarovski ATX module - eyepiece condensation (1 Viewer)

[Allen]

Hi all. Having read that the NL Pure's are susceptible to increased condensation issues, I wondered of anyone had experienced the same with the ATX eyepiece modules? I went to the Belted Kingfisher yesterday and had the eyepiece on mine constantly steaming up rendering it unusable for any viewing. Even wiping with a soft cloth made no difference, nor holding my eye away from the eyepiece. I know that some weather conditions make this more of an issue but I've never experienced an issue with my Leica APO 62 where it constantly happened and made the scope unusuable. Any similar experiences?

 

[birdcat]

Hi all. Having read that the NL Pure's are susceptible to increased condensation issues, I wondered of anyone had experienced the same with the ATX eyepiece modules? I went to the Belted Kingfisher yesterday and had the eyepiece on mine constantly steaming up rendering it unusable for any viewing. Even wiping with a soft cloth made no difference, nor holding my eye away from the eyepiece. I know that some weather conditions make this more of an issue but I've never experienced an issue with my Leica APO 62 where it constantly happened and made the scope unusuable. Any similar experiences?

What year was your ATX module manufactured? I experienced significant condensation issues with the 8x32 NL, but have not had serious issues with the ATS 20-60x65 manufactured in 2021. Although, admittedly, I don't tend to have my eye positioned the same way on the scope as I did on the binoculars.

 

[Allen]

Bought this year but would need to check serial number....can I tell what year from that?

 

[birdcat]

Yes, the serial number can tell you the year.

My Service

Option 1
Your product has a serial number consisting of one letter and 9 digits.

• The first two digits (after the letter) + 30 give the year of production.

Option 2
Your product has a serial number consisting of two letters and 7 digits.

• The first two digits (after the letters) + 10 indicate the year of production.

Option 3
If it is an older serial number (for example without letters at the beginning), please contact our Customer Service Team International or our Customer Service Team North America.

 

[Allen]

Serial number is HA1119342A so this would imply 2021 year of manufacture using option 2 right? (11 + 10 = 21)

 

[Allen]

Just jumping this up.....anyone else had any excessive misting experience with a 2021 ATX module?

 

[birdcat]

Are you wearing glasses or no glasses? Eyecup up or down? What kind of weather are you having this issue in? I can’t really help with your issue but I was curious.

Given that it’s a 2021 model it sounds like yours may be without the SwaroClean coating.

 

[Allen]

Hi Birdcat. No glasses, eyecup up - weather on Tuesday was rain and I suspect, with the mist that I drove through to get to the Belted Kingfisher, conditions that did lead to misting of lenses...several other people I noticed were wiping their eyepieces although that could have been raindrop driven. I've never had a situation where the issue was not partly addressed by a wipe with clean tissues. And just out of interest why would a 2021 model not have SwaroClean coating....is there a reason Swarovski have stopped using?

 

[AlphaFan]

And just out of interest why would a 2021 model not have SwaroClean coating....is there a reason Swarovski have stopped using?

Yes. Swarovski company reports intimate that the company is committing to becoming PTFE (Teflon) free to aspire to what they describe as becoming corporately responsible. Unfortunately, teflon is one of the main ingredients in the water repellent properties of protective lens coatings and is also often used in focus mechanisms. This isn’t something that Swarovski openly markets to its sport optics/nature viewing communities. However, the NL Pure is the only model-line that is confirmed PTFE free (there may be other Swarovski lines, including new spotters - who knows) - but there have been some reports of NL Pure external lens condensation issues and focus mechanism performance after heavy water exposure. It Is just simple chemistry/physics that teflon coated lenses and mechanical surfaces will be less apt to ill effects from water/condensation than those that aren’t.

 

[Allen]

Thanks Alphafan, any idea or way I can find out when they removed Teflon from the coatings? I have emailed Swarovski so hope to get a definitive answer but in case its already known. Thanks

 

[birdcat]

Thanks Alphafan, any idea or way I can find out when they removed Teflon from the coatings? I have emailed Swarovski so hope to get a definitive answer but in case its already known. Thanks

You might find some useful information below, but let us know what you hear back.

See post 96 in this thread regarding the binoculars : #96

 

[Allen]

Thanks Birdcat...I will keep people posted on the reply but it does seem to be likely that this is related to the NL Pure's issue and coating related.

 

[Allen]

I received a response from Swarovski who advise that 2021 model ATX modules still have the Swarovision coatings so thats good news! Their recommendation was that it was internal fogging and to send it back to them. I'm not wholly convinced that what I was experiencing was internal so going to give it a couple more field tests in adverse/wet/cold weather to see if it happens again first.

 

[AlphaFan]

I received a response from Swarovski who advise that 2021 model ATX modules still have the Swarovision coatings so thats good news! Their recommendation was that it was internal fogging and to send it back to them.

Well, unfortunately it looks like Swarovski played a bit of “slight ot hand” and dodged the question. Swarovision is their trademarked optical system containing a precise combination of specific lens and prism composition, along with Swarodur, Swarotop and Swarobright coatings on the prisms and lenses to maximize optical image quality, resolution, color fidelity, control flare, etc. That really has nothing to do with the SwaroClean coatings which were for external lens protection and water repellency. What I got out of the response they gave you is - ”we are not going to address any external condensation or moisture effects - the ATX has our best current optical components and design, let us know if you experience internal fogging.”

Unless Swarovski is willing to come out and say the optical device has SwaroClean coatings when directly and specifically asked - it likely doesn’t.

 

[Allen]

Thank you Alphafan, that was my mistake by asking them with the wrong name....I've reached back out specifically asking if it has the SwaroClean moisture repellent coatings.

 

[Allen]

Swarovski Optik response "SWAROVSKI OPTIK gives top priority to sustainable products and the reduction of the environmental impact during their manufacture. Therefore the SWAROCLEAN coating is no longer* applied to all SWAROVSKI OPTIK products. With this step all coatings become PFC-free. This change does not affect the optical quality of the product or its service life. There is still SWAROBRIGHT and SWAROTOP and Field Flattener lenses integrated"

Now I am still not sure that this really affects the issue I had given that I doubt my old Leica APO 62 would have had any 'moisture repellent' coatings on the eyepiece and never experienced such a fogging issue so I either give it some more field tests or send back to Swarovski immediately per their suggestion (although I can always do this after field testing). Is there any risk in me putting it in fridge and then using it to see how quickly the lenses equalise/de-mist temperature wise?

Edit * since July 2020 apparently

 

[AlphaFan]

So, there we have it. Finally clear that SwaroClean is no longer applied to any currently produced Swarovski optical products. Good to know that they lack water/dust repellent outer coatings. This is the primary reason I haven’t purchased an NL Pure or one of their ATX spotters. I like going to the coastline and some some dusty areas and there have been a number of reports of the NLs being both dust and condensation magnets. In fine sand areas even a light wind gets quite a bit of dust in the air on a sunny day. Too big an investment to risk or have to continually deal with that.

The lack of SwaroClean or other robustly hydrophobic external lens coating is certainly a contributing factor in the speed and volume of condensation accumulation as well as persistence and dissipation. However, hydrophobic coatings aren’t bulletproof. I specifically remember a horribly steamy-hot, humid summer morning when all of my hydrophobic-coated optics completely externally fogged - primarily from being in a 20-degree cooler/dryer A/C environment for 2+ hours prior to being exposed to extreme humidity. Had to wipe them off a number of times until the internal/external gas temps began to stabilize. But I rarely experience any significant external condensation (fogging) on my hydrophobic coated lenses when out in the field - no matter the changing weather conditions. Lenses coated with LotuTek, AquaDura, MeoDrop or other hydrophobic treatments are simply better protected from these effects than those that are not.

 

[Allen]

Indeed. Had I known I might have sought out an older in stock serial number but not much I can do in this regard now so will have to see how much of a real world issue it is over the next few months.

 

[Allen]

A quick test standing it outside in 3 degrees C, bringing indoors and breathing on the eyepiece - took 4 minutes to stabilize and condensation to disappear both times that I tried it.

 

[Binastro]

There are electrical, perhaps battery, heaters for astro scopes.

I don't know if there are eyepiece versions, or if they would disturb the optical quality.

Maybe basically wires wrapped around the outside.

I used a small hairdryer to get rid of mist on the optical window of the 12.5 inch Dall Kirkham.
One has to make sure the lead is very safe ot maybe use a battery hairdyer.

Some disapprove of hairdryers saying they can crack optics.

But purpose made heaters should be O.K.

I put lenses and cameras infested with dust mites in the freezer for two days, three times.
But I was not sure if the mites could survive this, so I foolishly gave them away to a friend.

The Minolta 250mm f/5.6 mirror lens is now valuable.

My eyelid froze to the metal eyepiece of my scope at minus 20C.
Luckily it was a push fit eyepiece.

With an RAS thread eyepiece I might have had to turn my head around several times to free my eye.

Regards,
B