Subspecies groups and future splits (14 Viewers)

[THE_FERN]

(Just to repeat from an earlier thread. I see the potential unique selling points for Opus over ebird etc as:

1. In-depth ID criteria: captured from the id forum
2. (Fairly) taxonomy agnostic, ideally enumerating differences between taxonomies. Want to bring potential splits into this too
3. Maps which indicate where sspp occur
4. Some special interest pages bringing together info not otherwise easy to find {sulawesi page))

 

[THE_FERN]

Scythebill provide maps but they are fairly basic.

There's a "standard" dataset which underpins the xeno canto pages.

To add subspecies, we parse the range descriptions, find coordinates for the places these mention ("shan mountains"), then derive an average location to put a marker on the map. We tie the markers to the subspecies already listed in the page...

 

[THE_FERN]

We have huge amounts of esoteric knowledge locked up in birdforum posts. The challenge is how to extract and regularise that so people can find and use it

 

[Paul Clapham]

In particular, I'd like to create maps for more or less every species using xeno canto's material, annotated to show roughly where each subspecies occurs (latter based on the range descriptions Clements gives). Most of the map creation can be automated too...

"Roughly" indeed. Here's an example from Clements which I happened to be looking up yesterday: Vireo gilvus gilvus. The range description says

"SW Canada to e-central US; winters to ne Costa Rica"

Living in SW Canada as I do, I was interested to find out whether I was seeing this Warbling Vireo subspecies, but looking at the other subspecies ranges I strongly suspect that "SW Canada" doesn't include much of the area west of the Rockies. So there's an area of vagueness about 1,000 km wide. Also, eBird reports extend far into northern Canada, and those could well be gilvus.

More likely we have the swainsonii subspecies where I live, which

"breeds from southeastern Alaska to northern Montana, and along Pacific coast to northern Baja California Norte; winters in western Mexico"

I would still have great difficulty drawing a line to separate those two.

 

[THE_FERN]

I would still have great difficulty drawing a line to separate those two.

Well indeed, and that's always going to true where subspecies abut or overlap. We expect subspecies to often be undiagnosable since under the biological species definition they can interbreed (so precise limits make no sense). The reasons for marking them on a map (at all) is that they include cryptic-level diversity, and sometimes the distributions are unusual and interesting

 

[Mysticete]

I've created an excel sheet with some of the suggested revision and information which can be seen at the link below. This only covers paleognaths so far. Anseriformes will be the next set of birds I will cover.
Any suggestions are welcome. Let me know if the link doesn't work

Bird Subspecies group list.xlsx

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Mysticete]

Next batch...not added to the excel spreadsheet but will add in a day or two, in case I need to add additional groups. Reminder, I use IOC taxonomy, which splits some groups Clements still has lumped, like Green-winged Teal.

Anseriformes Part 1

Black-bellied Whistling-Duck
Southern Black-bellied Whistling-Duck - Dendrocygna [autumnalis] autumnalis
Northern Black-bellied Whistling-Duck - Dendrocygna [autumnalis] fulgens


Tundra Swan
Whistling Swan - Cygnus [columbianus] columbianus
Bewick's Swan - Cygnus [columbianus] bewickii

Brant
Dark-bellied Brant - Branta [bernicla] bernicla
American Brant - Branta [bernicla] hrota
Black Brant - Branta [bernicla] nigricans

Cackling Goose (This and Canada are included for completeness - odds seem low for splitting either
Aleutian Cackling Goose - Branta [hutchinsii] leucopareia
Richardson's Cackling Goose - Branta [hutchinsii] hutchinsii
Small Cackling Goose - Branta [hutchinsii] minima
Taverner's Cackling Goose - Branta [hutchinsii] taverni

Canada Goose
Giant Canada Goose - Branta [canadensis] moffitti
Dusky Canada Goose - Branta [canadensis] occidentalis
Lesser Canada Goose - Branta [canadensis] canadensis

Greater White-fronted Goose
Greater White-fronted Goose- Anser [albifrons] albifrons
Greenland White-fronted Goose- Anser [albifrons] flavirostris
Tule White-fronted Goose- Anser [albifrons] elgasi

Taiga Bean Goose
Taiga Bean Goose - Anser [fabalis] fabalis
Middendorff's Bean Goose - Anser [fabalis] middendorffi

Graylag Goose (also unlikely)
Western Graylag - Anser [anser] anser
Eastern Graylag - Anser [anser] rubirostris

 

[Mysticete]

Anseriformes Part 2

Torrent Duck
Chilean Torrent Duck - Merganetta [armata] armata
Colombian Torrent Duck- Merganetta [armata] colombiana
Peruvian Torrent Duck- Merganetta [armata] leucogenis

Common Eider (only Atlantic and Pacific seem likely splits, so only included those here for simplicity)
Atlantic Eider - Somateria [mollissima] mollissima
Pacific Eider - Somateria [mollissima] v-nigrum

New Zealand Merganser (extinct)
Auckland Merganser - Mergus [australis] australis
Chatham Merganser- Mergus [australis] milleneri

Common Merganser
Goosander- Mergus [merganser] merganser
American Merganser - Mergus [merganser] americanus

Spur-winged Goose
Northern Spur-winged Goose - Plectropterus [gambensis] gambensis
Southern Spur-winged Goose - Plectropterus [gambensis] niger

Gadwall
Common Gadwall - Mareca [strepera] strepera
Coues' Gadwall (extinct) - Mareca [strepera] couesi

Mottled Duck
Florida Mottled Duck - Anas [fulvigula] fulvigula
Gulf Coast Mottled Duck - Anas [fulvigula] maculosa

Andean Teal
Andean Teal - Anas [andium] andium
Merida Teal- Anas [andium] altipetens

Yellow-billed Teal
Chilean Teal - Anas [flavirostris] flavirostris
Sharp-winged Teal - Anas [flavirostris] oxyptera

White-cheeked Pintail
White-cheeked Pintail - Anas [bahamensis] bahamensis
Galapagos Pintail- Anas [bahamensis] galapagensis

Yellow-billed Pintail
South Georgia Pintail - Anas [georgica] georgica
Yellow-billed Pintail - Anas [georgica] spinicauda

 

[raymie]

Mottled Duck
Florida Mottled Duck - Anas [fulvigula] fulvigula
Gulf Coast Mottled Duck - Anas [fulvigula] maculosa

If split I'd imagine they'd drop the name "Mottled" and have Florida Duck and Texas Duck or something like that?

 

[Paul Clapham]

"Roughly" indeed. Here's an example from Clements which I happened to be looking up yesterday: Vireo gilvus gilvus. The range description says

"SW Canada to e-central US; winters to ne Costa Rica"

However, XenoCanto and Earbirding have considerably better information (it seems to extend to northern Alberta).

This range description is pretty much identical to what appeared in the physical book published in 2000 and probably earlier versions too. I know, I know, it's an immense and thankless task updating range descriptions. Just saying, using them comes with considerable risks.

 

[THE_FERN]

However, XenoCanto and Earbirding have considerably better information (it seems to extend to northern Alberta).

This range description is pretty much identical to what appeared in the physical book published in 2000 and probably earlier versions too. I know, I know, it's an immense and thankless task updating range descriptions. Just saying, using them comes with considerable risks.

These days we're even more aware that climate and hence ranges aren't a fixed thing. So of course they'll be approximate and subject to change (almost any egret in Europe, for example). But something is better than nothing

 

[Fred Ruhe]

These days we're even more aware that climate and hence ranges aren't a fixed thing. So of course they'll be approximate and subject to change (almost any egret in Europe, for example). But something is better than nothing

I don't agree, Egrets were hunted for their feathers for ladies hats in Northwestern Europr around 1900, in the Netherlands they came back in they came back around 1977 in a naturally way, 1978 now there are places where they are common.

Fred

 

[Mysticete]

If split I'd imagine they'd drop the name "Mottled" and have Florida Duck and Texas Duck or something like that?

probably...will make that adjustment.

Although I'd give this split a low chance.

 

[THE_FERN]

I don't agree, Egrets were hunted for their feathers for ladies hats in Northwestern Europr around 1900, in the Netherlands they came back in they came back around 1977 in a naturally way, 1978 now there are places where they are common.

Fred

I don't think great egret, little egret or cattle egret have any (recent) historical presence in the UK but happy (and interested) to be proved wrong

 

[Fred Ruhe]

I don't think great egret, little egret or cattle egret have any (recent) historical presence in the UK but happy (and interested) to be proved wrong

KI am sorry, it is what i have from literature, but I am not prepared to read all my literature (I messure them in meters, not in numbers, but it is a lot) in my library, that will take ages surely when I am going to be blind, draining suitable habitat did not help either. Perhap-s Fuller or Hume can tell you.

Fred

 

[JustinJansen]

Egrets are well known in British kitchens until the 16th century. Even in the act for Preservation of Grain of 1564 they are mentioned. And the breeding is mentioned by the Bishop of Salisbury in the early 15th century. For this and more see Michael Shrubb's book Feasting, Fowling and Feathers from 2013.

 

[THE_FERN]

Thanks. It's interesting that they are _re-_colonizing then. Actually the point was that ranges change through time---whether in response to climate change or not !

(How about Eurasian collared dove or cattle egret in the Americas instead. Not necessarily related to climate, though)

 

[Mysticete]

I've completed Anseriformes, and have added them to the excel spreadsheet. If I have missed references or you have additional suggestions, feel free to comment here in this forum thread:

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

 

[JustinJansen]

As in your list recognised by Dutch Birding = CSNA (as CSNA is the taxonomic committee).

 

[Peter Boesman]

I've completed Anseriformes, and have added them to the excel spreadsheet. If I have missed references or you have additional suggestions, feel free to comment here in this forum thread:

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Is vocal difference based on personal assessment, different transcriptions in different sources or a published comparison?

E.g.
Black-capped Tinamou is vocally 'green', BoW is mentioned as source, but I don't see much evidence there.
Yellow-legged Tinamou is vocally 'red', but in the remarks you mention 'vocal differences are slight'

In both cases vocal differences between taxa are minor (= some sound parameters may have averages which are clearly different, but with considerable overlap in measured values)