Some 'mystery' gull pics for anyone who's interested (1 Viewer)

[HH75]

Hi all,
For your entertainment, some very poor gull pics, taken on 1st December this year, of an interesting 1st-w large gull. I won't say where they were taken, or by whom, for now, other than that they were taken in the Northern Hemisphere.
I have my own theory as to what it was, but that would be telling...
Regards,
Harry

 

[JANJ]

Hello Harry.

Firstly - I´ve been watching the other candidate from the same area as the one here now - which you emailed - scrutinising everything I could see from the images. Lots of Caspian character there - even settled on it (!) - just to hesitate a bit more finding it a bit to heavy (big male!) - not flatish-backed enough - although variable according to stance and mood of course and somehow reminding me of this one:

http://www.pbase.com/image/88852719

Want to watch it some more. Have you recived any suggestion on it?

Alright - the 1cy looks like a YLG - but is it really? From the images - the obvious contrast between scapular region and coverts is a YLG character and it seems that it hasen´t replaced any coverts and tertials - which would have made it easier - but not unique for some 1cy YLG,s with all, or almost so - retained juvenile coverts and tertials as late as Dec.
There seems to be a wide white edge to the lower tertial which one can wonder about.
From your description elewhere it seems good for YLG!

Christmas greetings Harry!

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

hi harry!

the region is somewhere at the atlantic between GB and marocco? ..
looks good for YLg to me but hard to say anything for certain - obvoius tertial step, p.-projection? size is ok for a (even male) michahellis.

best wishes,

 

[HH75]

Hi all,
Well, there are no flies on some of you, as the pics are indeed my own from Youghal dump, Co. Cork.
I would lean strongly towards 1st-w Yellow-legged Gull for the mystery bird here: in addition to the visible features above, the bird seemed long-legged (in comparison with nearby graellsii), long-winged, and, in flight, it had a faint pale 'window' on the inner primaries (not as obvious as that shown by (most) Herrings of that age, but more obvious than that of most Lesser Black-backeds) and a neat black tail band contrasting with a whiter tail and rump area than on most 1st-w Herrings.
In life, the tertial pattern basically was dark feathers with whitish tips and a thin whitish edge to the outer web until at most half way back along the feather: this is variable in michahellis, argenteus/argentatus and graellsii, but the pattern observed is perhaps more typical of the former? I can't completely be sure whether or not the apparent broad white area on the innermost tertial was real or just a photographic artefact.
The head wasn't particularly pale, overlapping with some 1st-w Herring, but the darker 'mask' around the eye etc was very obvious: I have often seen 1st-w or retarded 2nd-w graellsii with the appearance of a mask, but this has tended to be less obvious and contrasting, and also cover a smaller area of the head. The bill was blackish, and an obvious curve at the culmen and marked gonydeal angle gave it a shape that, though only subtly different to other large gulls, suggested YLGU.
The contrast between grey 2nd generation mantle/scapulars and dark brown 1st generation coverts was very obvious in life also, which, together with subtleties of head pattern/shape/bill shape, was what alerted me to the bird in the first place. As JanJ says, it would all have been so much easier had there been some new 2nd generation coverts or tertials: had it had these, I wouldn't even have had a second thought as to the identification!
As it is, however, my experience of 1st-w YLGU prior to this is limited to good views of perhaps 20+ at the river Var near Nice Airport two years ago (in early March), and, as I hadn't seen such a convincing candidate in Ireland before, I was just wondering as to people's opinions on how safe I would be in documenting it as this species?
Hopefully my next 1st-w YLGU will be a real 'in your face' pale-headed/dark-masked thing with new coverts...
Regards,
Harry

 

[lou salomon]

hi harry!

i had a very similar bird some days ago here in stuttgart on the gull roost. i described it to jan and many of the mentioned features for your bird also applied to the stuttgart one, except that it was a smallish (female type) bird. it also had a striking dark head which confused me. but it had a very accentuated dark smudge around the eye as well, more contrasting as shown by many graellsii. jan stated that he doesn't know the 'percentage' of graellsii showing a narrow clear cut subterminal tail band but they are rare. and if your bird appeared long legged and -winged this sounds good for michahellis. in combination with the whitish tail and narrow tail band i'd be almost sure it is a YLG (but a definite id from the pics is impossible i think).

cheers,