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Review: ZEN Prime HD (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve C
- Start date
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
Though i posted some initial possitives on the Primes i grew tired of the the unequal balance between barrels! This was also evident in the replacement pr. I recieved! I have since moved on not having luck with the two samples i have had. Was going to send the second sample back but, just don't want the headache been down that road to many times in the past! The frutrating part is they are so close to being really good glass! But, that's why we have to pay top dollar for the big dog's! Not saying it can't happen in the more expensive L,S,Z,N but the odds are definetly in the consumers favor that it won't! I'm not out the $$$ just the hope and confidence! Unfortunately this has kept me from purchasing the 7x43 ed's as well! Nothing personal against Charles or Zen-Ray he is a stand up guy in my book!!! Bryce...
I'm kinda with you Bryce.
I sent ZR an E-mail last night concerning my ED3 and Primes (both 8X) for return. My ED3's have the slop in the focus wheel and the Primes have the "dust spots".
I'm now zero for two with ZR, but if ZR comes through with repair or replacement I will be a customer for life as I really like the bins 'cept for the quality control.
WilsonsWarbler
Well-known member
Unequal balance? Like one barrel not as sharp as the other? Pretty sure I didn't see that in mine - will have to check further.
Highway Dog
Well-known member
The diopter adjustment is made for balancing the binocular telescopes.... So adjusting the diopter does not make it work for your eyes?
Rob.
Rob.
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
You are correct Frank. Bryce...
WilsonsWarbler
Well-known member
How big of a difference? I can't seem to find any in mine.
Got my Primes yesterday but it was well after dark,
Initial impressions was holy eye cups, they really are huge compared to my Acadias. Build is great very durable feel, good texture, the large oculars aren’t uncomfortable but don’t exactly meld into my hands either. Focus wheel is beautiful, smooth and precise with excellent grip.
Got up this morning to go test them before, wanted to test them in a hunting Type of situation and got it. Around 6:45am it was 33 degrees and very overcast, supposed to get snow later. I drove out to a park on a hill that I knew would have good views of farms below as well as woods type nature. Wore gloves and the focus nob was fantastic, Squirrels were everywhere, geese were flying into the ponds there was plenty to look at both near, far, and moving.
First the good: I am amazed at the edge to edge sharpness compared to the cheaper Acadias, it makes long range glassing much more enjoyable being able to use the whole field. While can’t say they were Brighter the resolution was definitely there over the Acadias. Like someone else stated in their review they seemed to peer through shadows showing detail more than they lit up the shadows with extreme light transmission.
The Bad: Eye cups, it’s like holding two drinking glasses to my face they are huge. They do not fit into my eyes comfortably; I have to hold them off barely touching my eye brows which lets in a lot of side light. The eye relief I cannot get right either, eye cups fully extended I noticeably lose FOV, eye cups half way down and I get black/gray outs if I don’t hold them just right. When I get it right the view is very natural, nice, and sharp.
The conclusion of day one is Indifferent, I see the potential that it is a very well made binocular but it doesn’t offer easy or stunning views every time I snap them to my face. That was only 25-30min of use so I will need more time to swing one way or another but I was hoping for a WOW and struggled to find it.
I will give some more time given the 30 day policy but am wondering if the ED3s wouldn’t fit me better or the same? Also considering returning to purchase the Monarch 7’s which might not be quiet as good optically but fit and felt excellent in my hands and to my eyes.
Initial impressions was holy eye cups, they really are huge compared to my Acadias. Build is great very durable feel, good texture, the large oculars aren’t uncomfortable but don’t exactly meld into my hands either. Focus wheel is beautiful, smooth and precise with excellent grip.
Got up this morning to go test them before, wanted to test them in a hunting Type of situation and got it. Around 6:45am it was 33 degrees and very overcast, supposed to get snow later. I drove out to a park on a hill that I knew would have good views of farms below as well as woods type nature. Wore gloves and the focus nob was fantastic, Squirrels were everywhere, geese were flying into the ponds there was plenty to look at both near, far, and moving.
First the good: I am amazed at the edge to edge sharpness compared to the cheaper Acadias, it makes long range glassing much more enjoyable being able to use the whole field. While can’t say they were Brighter the resolution was definitely there over the Acadias. Like someone else stated in their review they seemed to peer through shadows showing detail more than they lit up the shadows with extreme light transmission.
The Bad: Eye cups, it’s like holding two drinking glasses to my face they are huge. They do not fit into my eyes comfortably; I have to hold them off barely touching my eye brows which lets in a lot of side light. The eye relief I cannot get right either, eye cups fully extended I noticeably lose FOV, eye cups half way down and I get black/gray outs if I don’t hold them just right. When I get it right the view is very natural, nice, and sharp.
The conclusion of day one is Indifferent, I see the potential that it is a very well made binocular but it doesn’t offer easy or stunning views every time I snap them to my face. That was only 25-30min of use so I will need more time to swing one way or another but I was hoping for a WOW and struggled to find it.
I will give some more time given the 30 day policy but am wondering if the ED3s wouldn’t fit me better or the same? Also considering returning to purchase the Monarch 7’s which might not be quiet as good optically but fit and felt excellent in my hands and to my eyes.
OsageArcher
Well-known member
LOL I felt the same way at first about my 10x42 Primes. With my IPD of about 64mm I end up with the eyecups resting on the sides of the bridge of my nose and my eyebrow ridges - this still lets in some side light but turns out to be very comfortable, more comfortable than the sharper eyecups on my 10x32 EL SVs which although they go all the way into my eye sockets do not feel as good. I am able to snap the Primes up and get good views instantly, and the large barrels feel good in my hands. They are within a hair of being as sharp as the SVs and are binos I will keep for years.
Everyone's eyes and preferences are different - but I traded up to the Primes from the ED3s and now would not go back!
Thanks for the info, I don't want to rush it after 4 years with the same pair of Binoculars I think its the different placement that is causing my problems and it seems that I lot of people worked it out with the big eye cups.
eitanaltman
Well-known member
thanks for the review -- this is why we always advise people to try bins for themselves. There is so much subjectivity to the way the binocular "fits" for each person, and it may be worth sacrificing a smidge of optical quality for something that simply feels more "right" to you.
do give it some time though, as you may get used to them over time. Take full advantage of the 30 days. I will definitely be interested to hear your impressions of the Prime vs. the Monarch 7. My gut feeling is that they will be relatively equal in brightness and centerfield performance, with the Prime having the obvious edge in edge-to-edge clarity and sharpness, and probably better overall build quality. The Monarchs on the other hand will have the edge in size/weight and (apparently) comfort for you.
Remember that the ED3's are basically the same as the Vortex Talon HD that you tried, so you can assume the ergonomics and optics will be essentially within spitting distance of each other.
do give it some time though, as you may get used to them over time. Take full advantage of the 30 days. I will definitely be interested to hear your impressions of the Prime vs. the Monarch 7. My gut feeling is that they will be relatively equal in brightness and centerfield performance, with the Prime having the obvious edge in edge-to-edge clarity and sharpness, and probably better overall build quality. The Monarchs on the other hand will have the edge in size/weight and (apparently) comfort for you.
Remember that the ED3's are basically the same as the Vortex Talon HD that you tried, so you can assume the ergonomics and optics will be essentially within spitting distance of each other.
I feel that if I had picked them up and everything just snapped into view I would have went head over heals in love so I will give it some time to learn it.
I will put them side by side with the Monarchs in the next few days but from memory of both times I handled the Nikons I can say you pretty much hit the nail.
-Edge Sharpness the prime take it no contest
-Resolution the Primes I believe give a somewhat more detailed image
-Center field performance Equal
-Brightness Equal
-Focus, both were very smooth the Nikons might have just a little slop that was not evident in the Primes
- Weight/Grip/balance "for me" the Primes are good the Nikons are excellent
-Depth of field Close enough to call Equal
-FOV close enough to call equal
-Ease of view the nikons due to having an extra click stop adjustment that happens to be better suited for my eyes
-Cost: $109 in favor of the Nikons (this isn't as major a concern as simply loving the binoculars for years to come)
-Warrenty: Think I trust the Zen Ray customer service a little better but the Nikons offer a no fault as well for Life
If I decide I can't take the soft edges of the Nikon or the big eye cups of the Primes I will put the ED3 back on the table for consideration.
I will put them side by side with the Monarchs in the next few days but from memory of both times I handled the Nikons I can say you pretty much hit the nail.
-Edge Sharpness the prime take it no contest
-Resolution the Primes I believe give a somewhat more detailed image
-Center field performance Equal
-Brightness Equal
-Focus, both were very smooth the Nikons might have just a little slop that was not evident in the Primes
- Weight/Grip/balance "for me" the Primes are good the Nikons are excellent
-Depth of field Close enough to call Equal
-FOV close enough to call equal
-Ease of view the nikons due to having an extra click stop adjustment that happens to be better suited for my eyes
-Cost: $109 in favor of the Nikons (this isn't as major a concern as simply loving the binoculars for years to come)
-Warrenty: Think I trust the Zen Ray customer service a little better but the Nikons offer a no fault as well for Life
If I decide I can't take the soft edges of the Nikon or the big eye cups of the Primes I will put the ED3 back on the table for consideration.
brocknroller
porromaniac
That's one of those terse replies that I find cornfusing. Frank was correct that the sharpness was unequal in each barrel OR the sweet spot was larger on one side than the other???
I had two 7x36 ED2s, and both had unequal sweet spots. Sharpness in the sweet spot was the same, but one EP (the left) fell off at about 55%, then turned to field curvature from there out, but the other side on both samples was good to 70% out, with the field curvature more gradual, so that I had to move an object to the edge before it got blurry and nasty from Cupid's Bow.
The first sample crapped out on me when the diopter drifted beyond the point where I could focus that barrel. The second had the baffles, which improved the glare control, and the focuser was also smoother with no slop or hard spots like the first sample, but the sweet spot in the left EP was exactly like the first one, fall off at 55%, the right EP, fall off at 70%.
I expected this problem would have gone away at the higher price point of the Primes. In any case, the "cup-sized eyecups" are a turn off for me, they'd pinch my nose for sure from what users have described.
What I like about the new HT's design is that the barrels taper as you move toward the EPs, so that the eyecups are not the same diameter as the barrels, but smaller. With some of these "H" style bins, such as the Primes and the 8x33 Genesis, the body lines remain straight and the eyecups go out to the full way to the edge, not leaving much room for large proboscises or deep set eyes in between the EPs unless you have really wide IPD. The 8x33 Genesis's EPs are beveled at the edge, so that might help.
Not crazy about counter clockwise focusing either. All my bins focus clockwise, and when I switch, I always get screwed up the wrong way.
Anyway, it was too bad about the unequal EPs, particularly after all those exclamation points!!!!!!!! in your review.
This is what I call the "fatal flaw" (it's actually a literary term I co-opted). Everything seems to be really good then you come across some defect that's so glaring (or flaring as the case might be) that you can't live with it.
Almost every bin that I had and then sold had a "fatal flaw", either a defect in manufacturing or some design feature that was supposed to be there, such as a high level of pincushion, which I couldn't live with, such as the otherwise excellent Swift 8x44 ED Ultralite (wasn't too crazy about the 18 ft. close focus either, but I could have lived with that if not for Cupid's Bow).
I should start a thread on bins with "Fatal Flaws". I got a whole list of 'em.
<B>
eitanaltman
Well-known member
That sucks . Unfortunately quality control (not optics) really seems to be the final hurdle for the china bins to overcome.
. Unfortunately quality control (not optics) really seems to be the final hurdle for the china bins to overcome.The lens covers are just too tight and ripe them right off if your not careful. Not the end of the world I re glued and dot plan on using the covers as I use a harness/hub system to carry and protect my binoculars.
The primes are going through a good test this weekend with 3 days of wildlife and views in the Catskills. Also took them into cabelas on Friday an put them directly against 7 pairs of bins between 450-1200 retail with the guy at the counter which was interested in the zen-rays and how they stack up.
I will give a much better update once I'm back and not on a phone.
The primes are going through a good test this weekend with 3 days of wildlife and views in the Catskills. Also took them into cabelas on Friday an put them directly against 7 pairs of bins between 450-1200 retail with the guy at the counter which was interested in the zen-rays and how they stack up.
I will give a much better update once I'm back and not on a phone.
yes, we also realize the ocular cover is little too tight. We are in the process of redesigning the eye piece cover. Once it becomes available, we can send them to all current PRIME HD owners free of charge. Please accept my apology for this inconvenience.
I am also posting a photo showing what's inside the PRIME HD binoculars. It has 10 lenses and 2 prisms in each channel, including two field flattener lenses.
Cheers
Charles
Attachments
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't the inclusion of two field flatteners have some sort of negative effect on transmission and resolution?
I ask as I really don't know but would think every added lens would add to more scatter /reflection. I guess this question would also apply to models such as the SV and EDG.
