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Rainham Marshes going downhill? (1 Viewer)

Phil1981

New member
I've now been visiting this reserve for a number of years but have recently noticed that it doesn't appear to be the reserve of old. The staff all seem to have low morale, the wardens never seem to be the same. In fact I remember talking to a young Midland lad a good six months ago who seemed very knowledgeable and keen on the job but when I was in last week it seemed he had been replaced by a lass who didn't even want to talk to me. I got the impression from the people on the desk that they were very upset by the midlanders leaving.
I had made the journey to see the new hide opened last month but was told that it had been hired out for a private function! I find this disgusting!
does anyone have any idea why this fantastic reserve is going downhill, are they trying to make money the priority over the conservation ideals? And what's happened to take the very happy team I remember from a year or so ago to become a group of people would don't look like they want to be there?
Or is it just me?
Phil
 
I think it is a great reserve that keeps getting better beacuse of the investment the RSPB make there. In fact I think it is one of the best urban nature reserves in the country. Its takes me the same time to get to Minsmere from my house, but I often find myself heading down the A12 instead of up it to get to Rainham instead.
 
I'll stick my head above the parapet and say that I have said for some time that they seem to be more interested in getting the punters in than in the wildlife. I mean, why build a boardwalk right through a reedbed for example? I appreciate that they get loads of grants etc etc and therefore have to be people friendly but I confess the reserve doesn't really appeal to me.

Right, I shall no doubt now be banned from Rainham forever and will be panned big time by people reading this but there you go.
 
Things change

Phil,
There could be many reasons for staff going - if the lad was homesick, found a better position in line with what he wanted, you just don't know. Anyhow give the new person a chance, if she's new then perhaps she needs a bit more time to settle in, is she a volunteer or a paid member of staff? try and have a conversation with her - also don't drop the desk persons in the poo - their bosses may be reading this. Sometimes the hides, (not just within the RSPB) are not available as normal.....perhaps for education purposes such as inner city kids learning about the countryside or locals being encouraged to see what happens on a reserve.
Not everyone likes the new Parrinder hide at Titchwell and many have berated the ideas of the architect, prefer the old type of wooden structure etc -but it wont go back to its previous construction so you either have to adapt to the new, or don't go back if you prefer.
Also, as a member? you could bring your unhappy points to whoever runs the place so they can be aware and perhaps respond to the situation if a there is a problem.
Cheers P.
 
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Hi all,

I hope you enjoy walls of poorly written text. If not, try not to read this. It’s lunchtime, I’m bored, and fancy an internet argument. Please don’t take this as a blind defence of the RSPB or of Rainham, both of which do many things I disagree with.

Phil,
I think it might be you as much as anything else. There are obviously changes at Rainham, and I agree that not all are good, but everything changes. In general it’s still a fantastic reserve for the location with good facilities and a welcoming visitor centre.

Yes, staff members come and go, but that can be said of a any organisation and I'd venture that it might be more of an "issue" in a highly competitive, sought-after field such as conservation. People are likely to be high-achieving to get the job in the first place and, when young, more willing to see a job as a step in a larger career. So they move on, and naturally, when much-liked staff members leave any small team, it's a loss that's sorely felt on a personal level. Factor in that a lot of volunteers at any organisation across any sector will volunteer as much for their own reasons (social, experience, enjoyment, etc) as they will for the sheer worthiness of the cause and you have a group that are bound to be pretty susceptible to losses on a personal level. And if staff on desk appear to be upset and you think it’s about a staff member leaving, take it more as a reflection of how good and how well liked that member was rather than how "bad" or "unhappy" the team is as a whole. Another consideration is that even when visiting and volunteering frequently I didn’t get to know or see all the staff on site – there might be fewer staff changes than you or I are actually aware of!

As for the hide being hired out on the day you visited; well, unfortunately, charities have to raise the money they need to do the work they exist to do. All charities have to do this (I work for a small charity in a totally different field). Occasionally hiring out a hide on a nature reserve is probably a very good way to do this, or they wouldn’t be doing it. You can probably argue that these things should maybe be a bit more publicised so that people are aware before travelling, and I can understand your frustration having experienced a similar thing at a rather more expensive reserve run by a different group during the winter, but “disgusting” is a very strong word. Remember that even if your donations/membership/whatever helped to fund a project/hide/etc you’re not, unfortunately, entitled to see it at all times or even on any one given day. Rubbish, but true. The people who hired it out also paid towards the charity’s work and probably paid rather a lot more than you or I have done (assumption).

Viv,
Don’t take this as a panning. It’s not. I just like spewing crap on the internet. So far as I know, the reserve has visitor targets per year, set from higher up in the charity, so they have to work hard to increase visitor numbers. Also, as one of the reserves with the highest footfall it has to be used for education as much as possible and it has to be as accessible as possible for as many people as possible. I suppose the boardwalk in the reeds is a part of this; as one of their open accessible flagship places it's actually rather hard to see very much up close and personal. I think of the reeds directly next to the boardwalk as a bit of a loss-leader, rather like a lot of nature reserves in general. It’s worth remembering that the accessible part of the site is but a fraction of the whole site and that nature reserves often have to be big fundraising and education tools as much as anything else, to fund the charity’s wider conservation work.

And finally, if the reserve doesn’t appeal because it’s too busy or focusses on the wrong things for you, then fine. There are plenty of days when I drive elsewhere to go somewhere with fewer people (fortunately Essex is full of remote places where you can walk for a day and see noone) or don’t fancy going to a reserve where I know people in the centre, etc. On these days I go somewhere else.

Sorry, as I said, it’s lunch time and I’m bored.
 
Hi all,

I hope you enjoy walls of poorly written text. If not, try not to read this. It’s lunchtime, I’m bored, and fancy an internet argument. Please don’t take this as a blind defence of the RSPB or of Rainham, both of which do many things I disagree with.

Phil,
I think it might be you as much as anything else. There are obviously changes at Rainham, and I agree that not all are good, but everything changes. In general it’s still a fantastic reserve for the location with good facilities and a welcoming visitor centre.

Yes, staff members come and go, but that can be said of a any organisation and I'd venture that it might be more of an "issue" in a highly competitive, sought-after field such as conservation. People are likely to be high-achieving to get the job in the first place and, when young, more willing to see a job as a step in a larger career. So they move on, and naturally, when much-liked staff members leave any small team, it's a loss that's sorely felt on a personal level. Factor in that a lot of volunteers at any organisation across any sector will volunteer as much for their own reasons (social, experience, enjoyment, etc) as they will for the sheer worthiness of the cause and you have a group that are bound to be pretty susceptible to losses on a personal level. And if staff on desk appear to be upset and you think it’s about a staff member leaving, take it more as a reflection of how good and how well liked that member was rather than how "bad" or "unhappy" the team is as a whole. Another consideration is that even when visiting and volunteering frequently I didn’t get to know or see all the staff on site – there might be fewer staff changes than you or I are actually aware of!

As for the hide being hired out on the day you visited; well, unfortunately, charities have to raise the money they need to do the work they exist to do. All charities have to do this (I work for a small charity in a totally different field). Occasionally hiring out a hide on a nature reserve is probably a very good way to do this, or they wouldn’t be doing it. You can probably argue that these things should maybe be a bit more publicised so that people are aware before travelling, and I can understand your frustration having experienced a similar thing at a rather more expensive reserve run by a different group during the winter, but “disgusting” is a very strong word. Remember that even if your donations/membership/whatever helped to fund a project/hide/etc you’re not, unfortunately, entitled to see it at all times or even on any one given day. Rubbish, but true. The people who hired it out also paid towards the charity’s work and probably paid rather a lot more than you or I have done (assumption).

Viv,
Don’t take this as a panning. It’s not. I just like spewing crap on the internet. So far as I know, the reserve has visitor targets per year, set from higher up in the charity, so they have to work hard to increase visitor numbers. Also, as one of the reserves with the highest footfall it has to be used for education as much as possible and it has to be as accessible as possible for as many people as possible. I suppose the boardwalk in the reeds is a part of this; as one of their open accessible flagship places it's actually rather hard to see very much up close and personal. I think of the reeds directly next to the boardwalk as a bit of a loss-leader, rather like a lot of nature reserves in general. It’s worth remembering that the accessible part of the site is but a fraction of the whole site and that nature reserves often have to be big fundraising and education tools as much as anything else, to fund the charity’s wider conservation work.

And finally, if the reserve doesn’t appeal because it’s too busy or focusses on the wrong things for you, then fine. There are plenty of days when I drive elsewhere to go somewhere with fewer people (fortunately Essex is full of remote places where you can walk for a day and see noone) or don’t fancy going to a reserve where I know people in the centre, etc. On these days I go somewhere else.

Sorry, as I said, it’s lunch time and I’m bored.

Good positive points and well articulated:t:
As a life fellow of the RSPB I agree 99% of what they do..and unlike many local wildlife trusts they are very commercially minded which is the only way to compete with the business world. Without the RSPB we would have very few major wildlife sites left. Also remember that the pressure to development Rainham came from many sources including Walt Disney...I know what I would rather have and it wouldn't be Donald Duck8-P
B :)John
 
Lol James,you must of been bored to write all of that.Saying that I agree with the lot.
I popped over to rainham today and as usual there was the usual cheery faces headed by the legend that is Sir Howard Vaughan who even took my empty plate of chocolate cake to the dirty plate stand for me.
Rainham doesn't always throw up the best birds but I've never had any problems whatsoever there and I have probably visited it 200 plus times.
 
I've now been visiting this reserve for a number of years but have recently noticed that it doesn't appear to be the reserve of old. The staff all seem to have low morale, the wardens never seem to be the same. In fact I remember talking to a young Midland lad a good six months ago who seemed very knowledgeable and keen on the job but when I was in last week it seemed he had been replaced by a lass who didn't even want to talk to me. I got the impression from the people on the desk that they were very upset by the midlanders leaving.
I had made the journey to see the new hide opened last month but was told that it had been hired out for a private function! I find this disgusting!
does anyone have any idea why this fantastic reserve is going downhill, are they trying to make money the priority over the conservation ideals? And what's happened to take the very happy team I remember from a year or so ago to become a group of people would don't look like they want to be there?
Or is it just me?
Phil

I don't get the same impression, as a pretty regular visitor to Rainham. Staff do vary, and I get on better with some than others, but that's no different to any other reserve, RSPB or otherwise. Maybe you happened to visit on a bad day?

In general, can I suggest that it might be a bit more productive to discuss your concerns with the duty manager on site, or give the office a ring subsequently, rather than post something here which may never be viewed by reserve staff, and therefore probably won't lead to any outcome, let alone a favourable one? I'm sure they'd welcome the opportunity to respond directly to feedback rather than defend criticism that's already been made public.

Brings to mind the sign you occasionally see in restaurants etc, which strikes me as good sense:

"If you like what we do, tell others. If you don't like what we do, tell us."
 
Hi James, I agree with what you said. What I did wonder is what the hell have they done to Purfleet scrape with another big hide and fencing all round it, it looks a mess, and encroaches on more habitat. It can be viewed from the visitors centre anyway? There are plenty of hides, was it really necessary, how many more are they going to squeeze in? It doesnt look very well thought out, who is responsible for planning decisions there? Good work anyway, regards
 
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Hi James, I agree with what you said. What I did wonder is what the hell have they done to Purfleet scrape with another big hide and fencing all round it, it looks a mess, and encroaches on more habitat. It can be viewed from the visitors centre anyway? There are plenty of hides, was it really necessary, how many more are they going to squeeze in? It doesnt look very well thought out, who is responsible for planning decisions there? Good work anyway, regards

Like dbradnum said

"If you like what we do, tell others. If you don't like what we do, tell us." There might be a perfectly good reason why they did what they did, your input may help them modify their views for future plans.
:t:John
 
Hi James, I agree with what you said. What I did wonder is what the hell have they done to Purfleet scrape with another big hide and fencing all round it, it looks a mess, and encroaches on more habitat. It can be viewed from the visitors centre anyway? There are plenty of hides, was it really necessary, how many more are they going to squeeze in? It doesnt look very well thought out, who is responsible for planning decisions there? Good work anyway, regards

Yeah, I don't fully understand that new hide. It's not really looking out to anything that can't be seen from the centre. No idea who plans, what state the site master-plan is in, or how far through it they are.

The fencing, if you're referring to the fencing I'm thinking of, is electrified and part of an attempt to keep foxes off the wader breeding areas. With the nearby housing and the landfill there are loads of foxes out there.

Personally, I'd consider providing better viewing and access to the silts, especially if they're ever reactivated as part of the deep-water harbour thing they're doing out at West Thurrock, or wherever. At the moment they're all but unviewable.
 
I visited today and my main feelings about the new hides were centred around the waste of money they would have been. I don't think anyone chooses to go to a reserve because of the extravagance of the hides. I would have much preferred the money to go to habitat management or efforts to attract more young people to birdwatching. The staff were very nice though and the cakes at the cafe are still as tasty as they always were. It is still a very good day out and the developments do not have any substantial effect on the quality of my visit.
 
Hi all,

A good thread highlighting some of the positive and negative aspects of Rainham.

If people want to visit a reserve that is relatively quiet and far from the madding crowd, then Elmley is a shortish distance to the east.

Rainham is vastly different to Elmley. It has a play area for kids, a cafe, trains running past it every few minutes or so and generally lots of people and other noise from nearby. It's ideal for people like me who have kids and want them to appreciate nature (with a cake in the cafe beng the perfect bribe).

Rainham RSPB, to me, is a way of bringing nature to those that live in urban areas. It is an advert for nature on London's doorstep rather than just being a sanctuary for birds. So, not everyones cup of tea.

That said, they do have problems with water levels which they are aware of. Perhaps digging a drainage ditch through Purfleet scrape was ill-advised.....

Cheers,

Andy.
 
It has always been talked of as an urban reserve.It is quite wild,i have just got back from a walk round there this evening and you could of been on Elmley it was so windy and open.
I think the new hide will come into its own in the winter,we have had a very bad season with regards to minimal rainfall which probably hasn't helped.As for the fencing,it is to keep the foxes away from the breeding birds.I am not qualified enough to answer any questions about drainage ditches,someone obviously saw a benefit in it but not too sure what it was to be honest.
I think there is more to come from Rainham,lets remember the reserve hasn't been open too long and there is work ongoing on other land which is unaccessable at the moment.
 
I don't get the same impression, as a pretty regular visitor to Rainham. Staff do vary, and I get on better with some than others, but that's no different to any other reserve, RSPB or otherwise. Maybe you happened to visit on a bad day?

In general, can I suggest that it might be a bit more productive to discuss your concerns with the duty manager on site, or give the office a ring subsequently, rather than post something here which may never be viewed by reserve staff, and therefore probably won't lead to any outcome, let alone a favourable one? I'm sure they'd welcome the opportunity to respond directly to feedback rather than defend criticism that's already been made public.

Brings to mind the sign you occasionally see in restaurants etc, which strikes me as good sense:

"If you like what we do, tell others. If you don't like what we do, tell us."

I rather like Rainham, although I do not visit that often. A very urban location with lots of birds and some rare ones to. Also note a very helpful warden (name not known) who has always been very helpful on bird news. Good cafe in the visitors centre - always gets brownie points!!
 
Good cafe in the visitors centre - always gets brownie points!!

Or should that be "always get brownies", Mark?!

On a less facetious note, I've heard a lot of people complaining about the money spent on the hides. I have some sympathy with that, given that they are surely expensive... but given that the reserve is something of a flagship, so close to the millions of people (ie potential members) in London, the RSPB could hardly put up a few little wooden boxes. The typical visitor to the reserve is probably not a birder, so there's a delicate balancing act to be carried out.
 
I like Rainham, the cafe, staff etc and have seen some good birds there. It just seems since its become an RSPB reserve, its becoming more and more infringed upon, which goes against the reason for protecting it in the first place. I understand the reasoning behind one or two large glass fronted hides, for educational purposes, pond dipping etc.. However they are empty 95% of the time as it is, does it really need anymore? It doesnt look onto anything, is huge and far back from the path with an unneccesarily long walkway and is not far from the centre or the other large hide. My belief is the RSPB is and has always been a charitable group for the protection of birds and their habitat. Fundraising is obviously important, but this seems to be becoming its main focus here. Its all very well bringing nature to the urban masses, but only if they have the means to keep up the interest locally and come back. I wouldnt say its right in the midst of an urban area, and isnt that easy to access via public transport. If it sacrifices a nesting site of Sedge Warblers for a few daytrippers, does it not contradict everything it stands for? You cant 'sell nature' to people, people like it or they dont? You may persuade people to go once on a day out, but its supposed to be a haven for wildlife, not a tourist attraction. Why would they come back, unless they enjoy nature anyway? Doesnt this then counteract the need for expensive bird hides in the first place?
 
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Rainhams a great place, my understanding is that it is still being developed, new hides and boardwalks were always planned in the areas you find them. And habitat management is still under developement, with difficult water management issues to resolve. :-O
 
But you can sell nature to people.Rainham has around 500'000 people living within a 15/20 minute drive of the reserve,many if the people I meet went there as curious neighbours and are now hooked by the diversity of the place.Rainham marsh was always there but it's only since it became "visitor" friendly that the majority of visitors would think of going there,before it was a few hardy souls.Surely this shows it is working.
As for the hides,I believe the Ken Barrett hide is too low,another 6/7 feet up would give much better views,the main hide (butt) is cracking,and yes it is a little bit of a trek but what's wrong with a nice brisk 15 minute walk,it's good for you!!! As for the newest hide it does seem a bit strange with it's location but the ground is so bumpy that side even at 20' up in the visitors centre you can't see everything directly in front of you,it will give views in the winter that will be vastly different than those today,hides are essential IMO they help us to understand the birds on a greater scale and let's not forget that rainham is very much a work in progress
 
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