Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names (13 Viewers)

[raymie]

The amount of people who would be willing to learn scientific names for something that they do for fun cannot be anything that miniscule.

I have no doubt established serious birders will have no trouble learning them - many already know them. But it is a massive barrier for the more casual folks.

 

[Steve Babbs]

I have no doubt established serious birders will have no trouble learning them - many already know them. But it is a massive barrier for the more casual folks.

No trouble? An ageing hobby and many of us hopping from Africa to Asia to the Americas to Europe. That's a lot of names! A fairly wild youth has left this birder without that greatest memory.

 

[Mysticete]

(Most) people are not going back to scientific names. What people will do is that some will use the new names, and some will use the old names. Which honestly happens all the time, even for name changes that are not controversial. I still refer to things like Gray Jays all the time for instance. And yet people know what I am talking about.

 

[temmie]

I'm drifting off-topic a fair bit, but Latin names are usually the following binomial = genus + specific name.
You have a zillion antwrens, but thanks to the Latin genus name, you can distinguish in e.g. Herpsilochmus and Myrmotherula etc, and once you know you have, in a certain region, only one of maybe 2 of each genus as congeners aren't overlapping in range or altitude, it's much easier to get a grip on the birds.
I don't aim for learning all latin names by heart, but for some (especially obscure or hard-to-separate species or e.g. (and this is again more on-topic) non-sensical English names, it helps me quite a lot.

Besides being helpful, some latin names are 'better' than the English (or whatever language) equivalent, e.g. Crested Tit-Warbler is Leptopoecile elegans. Lepto = delicate and poecile = tit. Elegans is self-explaining. So it's a delicate elegant tit. Sounds just as good as the bird looks like

 

[Paul Chapman]

An update straight from the AOS, which specifically brings up the petition and some of the related fallout. So it does seem like the AOS is taking the petition and related criticisms seriously, and not just dismissing it out of hand (which, not going to lie, I was kind of expecting).

AOS Pilot Project to Change Harmful English Common Bird Names - American Ornithological Society

During the past several years, the AOS has been engaged in discussions, forums, and decisions about how best to handle eponymous and other English common bird names that may be perceived as offensive or exclusionary.

americanornithology.org

They have now also provided the first 6 species to get new names as part of a "pilot" project for the effort, which is an interesting phrasing which I feel is ripe for interpretation. Unsurprisingly most of these are what you would call "low-hanging" fruit so to speak

Inca Dove
Maui Parrotbill
Townsend's Warbler
Townsend's Solitaire
Bachman's Sparrow
Scott's Oriole

Many thanks for posting.

I read it mainly to find out whether there was anything persuasive in there that changing the majority of names would improve diversity and engagement. I failed to find anything cogent or persuasive and instead saw a repetition of that opinion as if it were fact.

That said, I have so much subjective overlay on this topic that I may have missed something substantive and I invite any correction.

I was amused to see the reference to Zino's Petrel and this passage:-

"Clearly, the AOS needs to initiate discussions on eponymous English common bird names with our international partners for the species that we share and to determine the best way to engage with the diverse public users of English names throughout the species’ ranges when making any name changes."

I presume the "any name changes" is broad enough wording to allow some names to remain unaltered?

I was also amused to see that a statement and process in which a considerable amount of effort had clearly been spent had a more than 10% error on the species whose ranges were entirely within their ambit by missing Harris's Sparrow. It gave me little confidence in their knowledge and application.

For me, still (largely) a sideshow save for those names that are truly offensive and still as a result (largely) time and effort that should be directed to other causes with more substantive results.

All the best

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'm drifting off-topic a fair bit, but Latin names are usually the following binomial = genus + specific name.
You have a zillion antwrens, but thanks to the Latin genus name, you can distinguish in e.g. Herpsilochmus and Myrmotherula etc, and once you know you have, in a certain region, only one of maybe 2 of each genus as congeners aren't overlapping in range or altitude, it's much easier to get a grip on the birds.
I don't aim for learning all latin names by heart, but for some (especially obscure or hard-to-separate species or e.g. (and this is again more on-topic) non-sensical English names, it helps me quite a lot.

Besides being helpful, some latin names are 'better' than the English (or whatever language) equivalent, e.g. Crested Tit-Warbler is Leptopoecile elegans. Lepto = delicate and poecile = tit. Elegans is self-explaining. So it's a delicate elegant tit. Sounds just as good as the bird looks like

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

The use of Latin name throughout this post for scientific names is delightfully ironic in light of the topic. It is clearly as inappropriate as Inca Dove and I feel for any Greek readers who may be offended....

😀

All the best

Paul

 

[Jim M.]

And it is my contention that the “ornithological” definition is hard to justify and no amount of inertia means that it is either correct or should be continued.

“We need to rename these birds to promote inclusion in birding but sorry Mexico you are still not part of North America. We’re sure you understand it’s just the way it is as defined by us here in the US and Canada.”

Sounds pretty silly to me.

What you say is not accurate. Mexicans refer to those from the U.S. and Canada as "norteamericanos." So it's not a perspective those north of the border are imposing on them.

Your complaint is more an instance of people who don't live in the western hemisphere trying to tell people who live here how we should refer to our geography; just as this thread is mostly about people who don't live here trying to tell us what bird names to use. Neocolonialism indeed.

 

[temmie]

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

The use of Latin name throughout this post for scientific names is delightfully ironic in light of the topic. It is clearly as inappropriate as Inca Dove and I feel for any Greek readers who may be offended....

😀

All the best

Paul

My opinion: if it works, it works. Nothing really works perfect but I’m always open for improvements, be it a simple rank number (eg lets name barn swallow #1 and house sparrow #11.000 and all others ranked in between), a strong password (let’s name barn swallow = Rz3!$e25%) or a name that tries to describe the bird like red-throated Blue-banded swallow or whatever works.

 

[Paul Chapman]

My opinion: if it works, it works. Nothing really works perfect but I’m always open for improvements, be it a simple rank number (eg lets name barn swallow #1 and house sparrow #11.000 and all others ranked in between), a strong password (let’s name barn swallow = Rz3!$e25%) or a name that tries to describe the bird like red-throated Blue-banded swallow or whatever works.

I think the challenge falls within differing perceptions on whether the status quo works.

All the best

Paul

 

[Xenospiza]

I was amused to see the reference to Zino's Petrel and this passage:-

"Clearly, the AOS needs to initiate discussions on eponymous English common bird names with our international partners for the species that we share and to determine the best way to engage with the diverse public users of English names throughout the species’ ranges when making any name changes."

Without Zino there'd probably be no need for Americans to discuss its name.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I'll keep mentioning this until they get around to kicking me off the forum, but the reality is that birds DO have multiple names and a lot of our anguish here stems from pretending that they don't, and/or pretending that common names should do the job of the scientific names.

One of the potential outcomes of wholesale rapid changes to the common names could be that people toss up their hands and go back to using Latin names as is more common with other taxa. I think this more metered approach (with only six "pilot" species) reduces that chance and I think that is much more welcome. But as you point out, even decrees by committees have not stopped a multitude of English names being used for the same things. That is the nature of language, and whether we like it or not this recent effort is no different.

Not so much in the modern era where most people will be using the same fieldguide for any, given area.