Parrots (6 Viewers)

[l_raty]

Psittacus toui and Psittacus tui are synonyms of current genus Touit ?

Psittacus tovi Gmelin 1788 is a syn. of Brotogeris jugularis (Statius Muller 1776).
Psittacus toui Latham 1790 is an emendation of Psittacus tovi Gmelin 1788.

Psittacus tui Gmelin 1788 is a syn. of Brotogeris sanctithomae (Statius Muller 1776).

The type of Touit Gray 1855 (adopted from Lesson 1831, who used it as a vernacular name only) is Psittacus huetii Temminck 1830 (?)* by original designation.

*) Although the text that included this name is marked as part of livr. 83 which was published in Feb 1830, this text was not published together with the rest of the livraison, see the review of livr. 83-86 by Jardine 1830 (plate 491: "The description deferred."; Jardine cited no scientific name for this species). Livr. 87 was published in 1831, thus 1830 seems very unlikely to be the correct date of publication of Psittacus huetii. Temminck's text indicates that Huet had seen the plate published, but had since passed away; Huet appears to have died on 8 Dec 1830: the text must have appeared later than this. (The name stands on the Official List 1830 as its publication year, however.)

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Psittacus tovi Gmelin 1788 is a syn. of Brotogeris jugularis (Statius Muller 1776).
Psittacus toui Latham 1790 is an emendation of Psittacus tovi Gmelin 1788.

Psittacus tui Gmelin 1788 is a syn. of Brotogeris sanctithomae (Statius Muller 1776).

The type of Touit Gray 1855 (adopted from Lesson 1831, who used it as a vernacular name only) is Psittacus huetii Temminck 1830 (?)* by original designation.

*) Although the text that included this name is marked as part of livr. 83 which was published in Feb 1830, this text was not published together with the rest of the livraison, see the review of livr. 83-86 by Jardine 1830 (plate 491: "The description deferred."; Jardine cited no scientific name for this species). Livr. 87 was published in 1831, thus 1830 seems unlikely to be correct. Temminck's text indicates that Huet had seen the plate published, but had since passed away; Huet appears to have died on 8 Dec 1830: the text must have appeared later than this.

Among the species described by Buffon, Cuvier, Vieillot or Bonnaterre, is there at least one which corresponds to the genus Touit?

I wonder what species the name Sosové refers to?

 

[l_raty]

Among the species described by Buffon, Cuvier, Vieillot or Bonnaterre, is there at least one which corresponds to the genus Touit?

How do you determine that a species "corresponds" to a genus in the work of authors who were long dead when this genus was made available ?
Vieillot used "Touit" as a French vernacular for his genus Pipilo (now "Tohi") -- e.g., 1816, 1819, 1822, 1823.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

How do you determine that a species "corresponds" to a genus in the work of authors who were long dead when this genus was made available ?
Vieillot used "Touit" as a French vernacular for his genus Pipilo (now "Tohi") -- e.g., 1816, 1819, 1822, 1823.

Can we link a species from the plates or descriptions? It's not possible this way?

The authors who succeeded Buffon used his names to which they added a Latin name. There are obviously a lot of synonyms or dubious names but we can find the current valid scientific names

e.g. In my previous comment I ask what species is behind the name Sosové. Can we trace the origin of Sosové?

Lol, I just answered my question, the Sosové is Brotogeris chrysoptera

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Only these 4 species remain to be determined :

Psittacus nigricollis
P. brasiliensis
P. squammosus
P. cinereicollis

 

[l_raty]

Can we link a species from the plates or descriptions? It's not possible this way?

Which plates or descriptions ?
The genus Touit was made available (by indication) as follows:

1508. TOUIT, Less. 1831. Pyrrhulopsis, Pr. B. 1854, nec Reichenb. 1849. (Psittacus Hueti, Temm.)

"Pyrrhulopsis, Pr. B. 1854, nec Reichenb. 1849" is Pyrrhulopsis Reichenbach 1850, as "misapplied" (in Gray's opinion) by Bonaparte in his 1854 Tableau des perroquets.

In practice, Bonaparte 1854 was the first to include nominal species in Pyrrhulopsis Reichenbach, which, under the ICZN, is what determines what is to be deemed to have been originally included in the name, hence cannot, in principle, be wrong. As Bonaparte attributed the name explicitly to Reichenbach in 1854, he cannot be construed as having proposed a new generic name there, thus "Pyrrhulopsis, Pr. B. 1854, nec Reichenb. 1849", as per Gray 1855, is not an available name in its own right and, given that a nomen novum is by definition a name expressly proposed to replace an already available name, and Touit Gray itself cannot be construed as a nomen novum. "Touit G.R. Gray, 1855 (gender: masculine), type species Psittacus huetii Temminck, 1830 by original designation" was placed on the Official List by the ICZN in 2017, in Opinion 2383.

 

[l_raty]

Only these 4 species remain to be determined :

Psittacus nigricollis
P. brasiliensis
P. squammosus
P. cinereicollis

Source / authorities ?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Source / authorities ?

P. nigricollis, P. brasiliensis and P. squammosus

t.25 (1817) - Nouveau dictionnaire d'histoire naturelle - Biodiversity Heritage Library

The Biodiversity Heritage Library works collaboratively to make biodiversity literature openly available to the world as part of a global biodiversity community.

www.biodiversitylibrary.org

P. cinereicollis page 365 & 366

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Which plates or descriptions ?
The genus Touit was made available (by indication) as follows:


"Pyrrhulopsis, Pr. B. 1854, nec Reichenb. 1849" is Pyrrhulopsis Reichenbach 1850, as "misapplied" (in Gray's opinion) by Bonaparte in his 1854 Tableau des perroquets.

In practice, Bonaparte 1854 was the first to include nominal species in Pyrrhulopsis Reichenbach, which, under the ICZN, is what determines what is to be deemed to have been originally included in the name, hence cannot, in principle, be wrong. As Bonaparte attributed the name explicitly to Reichenbach in 1854, he cannot be construed as having proposed a new generic name there, thus "Pyrrhulopsis, Pr. B. 1854, nec Reichenb. 1849", as per Gray 1855, is not an available name in its own right and, given that a nomen novum is by definition a name expressly proposed to replace an already available name, and Touit Gray itself cannot be construed as a nomen novum. "Touit G.R. Gray, 1855 (gender: masculine), type species Psittacus huetii Temminck, 1830 by original designation" was placed on the Official List by the ICZN in 2017, in Opinion 2383.

I'll write un French in part

Ce n'est pas tout à fait l'objet de ma question. Cela n'a pas de rapport avec la validité du genre Touit. Je ne la remets pas en cause ni son espèce-type.

Y-a-t-il parmi les Psittacidés décrits par Buffon dans son Histoire naturelle, ainsi que les Psittacidés décrits dans le Nouveau dictionnaire d'histoire naturelle par Vieillot, puis Bonnaterre dans son Ornithologie, des espèces qui sont aujourd'hui placées dans le genre Touit ?

You must have noticed that these authors placed all of these species in Psittacus indiscriminately, but with the Latin epithets, we can find the current scientific name.

 

[l_raty]

• Psittacus nigricollis "Lath." = Latham 1801 doesn't appear to match anything otherwise known to exist, and has been suggested to be a artefact.
• Psittacus brasiliensis "Lath." = Latham 1790 is a syn. of Eupsittula aurea (Gmelin 1788). (Beware this is not Psittacus brasiliensis Linnaeus 1758.)
• Psittacus squammosus "Lath." = Latham 1790 is a syn. of Pyrrhura picta (Statius Müller 1776)
• Psittacus cinereicollis Vieillot 1818 is a junior objective syn. of Psittacus buccalis Bechstein 1811 (the base of both names is plate 67 of Levaillant's Histoire naturelle des perroquets, which shows a bird Levaillant said was from Cayenne), and has been thought to be a young of Myiopsitta monachus (Boddaert 1783). Make your own mind, I guess... (The young Monk Parakeets I'm used to see don't really look like this. And of course the species is not found in Cayenne.)

 

[l_raty]

Y-a-t-il parmi les Psittacidés décrits par Buffon dans son Histoire naturelle, ainsi que les Psittacidés décrits dans le Nouveau dictionnaire d'histoire naturelle par Vieillot, puis Bonnaterre dans son Ornithologie, des espèces qui sont aujourd'hui placées dans le genre Touit ?

Touit batavicus (Boddaert 1783) = Psittaca batavica Boddaert 1783 : this is Planche enluminée 791, fig. 1; the "Perruche aux ailes variées. Sixième espèce à queue courte." in Buffon; and the "Perruche aux ailes variées, Psittacus melanopterus, Lath." in Vieillot 1817.
Touit purpuratus (Gmelin 1788) = Psittacus purpuratus Gmelin 1788 : this was probably not known to Buffon, but is the "Toui à queue pourpre, Psittacus marginatus, Lath.; psitt. purpuratus, Linn., édit. 13." in Vieillot 1817.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Touit batavicus (Boddaert 1783) = Psittaca batavica Boddaert 1783 : this is Planche enluminée 791, fig. 1; the Perruche aux ailes variées (sixième espèce à queue courte) in Buffon; and the "Perruche aux ailes variées, Psittacus melanopterus, Lath." in Vieillot 1817.
Touit purpuratus (Gmelin 1788) = Psittacus purpuratus Gmelin 1788 : this was probably not known to Buffon, but is the "Toui à queue pourpre, Psittacus marginatus, Lath.; psitt. purpuratus, Linn., édit. 13." in Vieillot 1817.

None of the species of "Touis, ou Perriches à queue courte" described by Buffon belongs to the current genus Touit, all are Brotogeris.

The only species described by Buffon which belongs to the current genus Touit is the Variegated-winged Parakeet (now called Toui à queue pourprée - Touit purpuratus), which is excluded from his "Touis, or Perriches à queue courte".

The genus Touit is from the vernacular Touit, but the originals Touis is not a Touit, but is a Brotogeris...can't make head or tail of it 🤣🤣🤣

 

[l_raty]

The only species described by Buffon which belongs to the current genus Touit is the Variegated-winged Parakeet (now called Toui à queue pourprée - Touit purpuratus), which is excluded from his "Touis, or Perriches à queue courte".

The only species described by Buffon which belongs to the current genus Touit is the Lilac-tailed Parrotlet (now called Toui à sept couleurs - Touit batavicus), which is excluded from his "Touis, or Perriches à queue courte", because he thought it to be an OW species (i.a. from Batavia, hence Boddaert's name "batavica"), and his perriches were NW species.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

The only species described by Buffon which belongs to the current genus Touit is the Lilac-tailed Parrotlet (now called Toui à sept couleurs - Touit batavicus)

Yes sorry. It's almost the same

 

[Peter Kovalik]

Selvatti, A.P., Galvão, A., Mayr, G., Miyaki, C.Y., and Russo, C.A.d. (2022) Southern hemisphere tectonics in the Cenozoic shaped the pantropical distribution of parrots and passerines. Journal of Biogeography 49: 1753– 1766.
https://doi.org/10.1111/jbi.14466

Abstract
Aim
Explanations of pantropical distributions are challenging for taxa that diverged during the Cenozoic, after Gondwana broke apart. The ‘boreotropics hypothesis’ suggests that pantropical birds originated in the Laurasian forests. Extant parrots (Psittaciformes) are one the most species-rich pantropical avian clades, but their known evolutionary history does not fit a boreotropical origin. Most living parrots and the earliest diverging lineages of the Psittaciformes inhabit the remnants of Gondwana, whereas the oldest stem and crown fossils are from the remnants of Laurasia. Our study proposes a biogeographic hypothesis that focuses on the Cenozoic connections between Laurasia and Gondwana to explain extant and fossil geographical distributions.

Location
Global.

Taxon
Psittaciformes.

Methods
We generated a time tree using previously derived data from 32 molecular markers for 312 parrot species and reconstructed their biogeographic history using maximum likelihood. Two scenarios were compared: one with dispersal constrained to adjacent areas, including the connections between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres, and one without this constraint.

Results
Our results indicate that the pantropical distribution of parrots was shaped by two major geological events. First, the final breakup of parts of Gondwana may have caused the first splits within crown parrots, establishing two parallel radiations: Psittacidae in the Neotropics and Psittaculidae in Australasia. Second, igneous palaeoprovinces could have connected major biogeographic realms. It seems that Atlantogea and Eurogondwana were important, as they connected South America, Africa and Europe, thus reconciling the Gondwanan crown splits and the early Laurasian fossils.

Main Conclusions
Our time tree allowed more concise biogeographic correlations between parrots and their sister group, the passerines and Earth's tectonic history. The crown lineages of Psittacopasseres appear to have originated in the Southern Hemisphere remnants of Gondwana, but stem lineages appear to have been able to disperse into the Northern Hemisphere through palaeobiogeographic provinces in the Cenozoic.

This article was mentioned by Fred Ruhe here.

 

[l_raty]

Poicephalus rueppellii mariettae Hubers & Schnitker 2022.

OD:
Hubers J, Schnitker H. 2022. Der Mariette-Papagei, eine neue Unterart des Rüppell-Papageis. Papageien, 35: 71-77.
ToC of issue: PAPAGEIEN-Fachzeitschrift 02/2022
(Full paper not seen by me.)

See:
Hubers J, Schnitker H, van Grouw H. 2023. Notes on a recently described subspecies, and the poorly known nominate subspecies of Rüppell's Parrot, Poicephalus rueppellii mariettae and P. r. rueppellii. Bull. Brit. Ornithol. Cl., 143: 66-73.

https://doi.org/10.25226/bboc.v143i1.2023.a4

Type locality: Otjimbingwe, Damaraland, Namibia.
Etymology: "The name mariettae honours Jos Hubers’ wife, Mariëtte."

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Stella Huynh, Alison Cloutier, Simon Yung Wa Sin,
Museomics and phylogenomics of lovebirds (Psittaciformes, Psittaculidae, Agapornis) using low-coverage whole-genome sequencing,
Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution,
2023, 107822.

Museomics and phylogenomics of lovebirds (Psittaciformes, Psittaculidae, Agapornis) using low-coverage whole-genome sequencing

Natural history collections contain specimens that provide important insights into studies of ecology and evolution. With the advancement of high-thro…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Taphrospilus]

Authorship Pyrrhura peruviana?
I ask myself about the authorship of Pyrrhura peruviana? Often it is Hocking, Blake & Joseph 2002

If we look https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/on/v013n04/p0337-p0364.pdf the article is written by Joseph. Of course we can find all three names in the OD and...

Etymology. The epithet peruviana was chosen by P. Hocking to indicate the known occurrence of this form only in Peru. The vernacular name refers to the effect created by the extensive subterminal bands on the feathers of the throat and breast.

How would the code claim the authorship?

 

[l_raty]

How would the code claim the authorship?

Joseph alone.

 

[Taphrospilus]

But from the description it is clear that Hocking has choosen the name. No relevance?