New AX Visio 10x32 binocular (2 Viewers)

[Canip]

What now scares me is that the Visio may be worth the price, too.

 

[Dyrlege]

Yes (and nitrogen purged).

That definitely wasn't any help resisting them🤣

 

[FVG]

Not sure if the Visio will be a commercial success, but I think it is a good move by Swarovski in any case. Classical binocular development has pretty much peaked and as a minimum, Swaro has now shown that they are not content with adding useless strap attachments to their expensive binoculars but that they are actually leading innovation.

Indeed, the current generations of binoculars appear to have reached their limits, but there is still a very large market open for stabilized binoculars. And that has much more added value (and market value) than this nonsense.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

One thing to say about AI I have seen people overly rely on this tech even in disbelief at a local experienced guides correct ID because Merlin didn´t confirm the ID - this is more common place than you think ! ...

They need to be shown this article BirdNet Accuracy.

OK this is BirdNet, not Merlin, but BirdNet is another Cornell offering - it may even be the backend for Acoustic Analysis in Merlin… I am not sure. Anyway the analysis shows that not only is BirdNet not overly accurate with identification, but it is also not that great at detecting all vocalisations present. These stats vary depending on the species.

Seems like there is nothing quite like a a well trained human ear for picking up and identifying bird vocals… pretty sure that a well trained human eye will be also beat any AI system (and definitely when combined with a well trained ear and knowledge of behaviour, moult etc. etc.).

 

[dalat]

Indeed, the current generations of binoculars appear to have reached their limits, but there is still a very large market open for stabilized binoculars. And that has much more added value (and market value) than this nonsense.

Personally I agree. I would also rather buy a new IS binocular that fits my eyes and has good ergonomics (the Canon does not work for me) than the Visio.

But not sure about the "very large market" for IS bins. Swaro, Canon and all the others active in the market seem to disagree

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Indeed, the current generations of binoculars appear to have reached their limits

The NL Pure 42 were only launched in 2020, and were seen as a great step forward with enhanced FoV in particular. So it is probably a bit early to suggest that conventional binocular design has reached its limits… and optics design is always going to progress rather slowly - there are only so many things you can do, with what is essentially a set of lens and prisms in a housing.

I for one also am happy with the pace of development… or perhaps rather like Vodafone, Swarovski should be selling binocular plans and you get a free upgrade every two years!

 

[Conndomat]

But not sure about the "very large market" for IS bins. Swaro, Canon and all the others active in the market seem to disagree

The big market is the low-budget area, the vast majority of people who want binoculars will never take note of the AX Visio, nor IS binoculars, BF is a microcosm.

Which user group the Visio is aimed at is still a mystery to me at the moment.

Andreas

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Personally I agree. I would also rather buy a new IS binocular that fits my eyes and has good ergonomics (the Canon does not work for me) than the Visio.

I have written about this in another thread, but I suspect that the problem with IS is just what you have said ‘… if it has good ergonomics’. Others have said, ‘if they remain as light as my Pure bins… if they have better FoV etc. etc.’ I suspect that we all want the impossible - after all batteries, gyroscopes, switches etc. etc. all need to be built into the solution.

I am sure that Canon, Sig, Nikon or Kite, would have all produced ergonomic lightweight masterpieces with great FoV if it was that easy. I suspect that we cannot have it all - we are asking the impossible.

My question in the other thread, was what would you be willing to compromise about your bins to get IS? For me it is nothing, but I do have a ‘compromised’ pair of IS for ocasional use in certain circumstances. As these are definitely a second pair, I would not have been willing to spend top dollar - I wonder if Zeiss, Swarovski and Leica market research has reached the same conclusion, hence their absence from the market.

 

[FVG]

The big market is the low-budget area, the vast majority of people who want binoculars will never take note of the AX Visio, nor IS binoculars, BF is a microcosm.

Which user group the Visio is aimed at is still a mystery to me at the moment.

Andreas

What is important with IS binoculars is a design that is as compact and light as possible, which also looks good, such as the Kite APC, the Zig Zulu and the Opticron (certainly not the prehistoric-looking Canons).
Once you (like me) have tasted IS binoculars, you are in for a bit of a treat. Money is not even a problem for many when I look around in nature and see what expensive things many people are walking around with.

 

[Conndomat]

What is important with IS binoculars is a design that is as compact and light as possible, which also looks good, such as the Kite APC, the Zig Zulu and the Opticron (certainly not the prehistoric-looking Canons).
Once you (like me) have tasted IS binoculars, you are in for a bit of a treat. Money is not even a problem for many when I look around in nature and see what expensive things many people are walking around with.

See the post by @Jon.Bryant, I agree 100%.
In addition, there is a bad warranty period on electronics; here in Germany there is only 2 years.

It's just a fact, the vast majority of binoculars are priced in the $100 range, that's the mass market, just for people who want to occasionally look through binoculars. IMO, high-quality binoculars are still a niche product, most people aren't interested in them at all.

By the way, the imminent death of conventional binoculars has been predicted since the introduction of the Canon IS 10x42 - that was a good 20 years ago.
IS binoculars still lead a shadowy existence.

Andreas

 

[Jon.Bryant]

IS binoculars still lead a shadowy existence.

I think they are improving. I have the Kite APC 16x42 and think they are very good in the right circumstance - I recently did a expedition to the New Zealand Subantarctic islands, and the image was amazingly stable when on the vessel and on zodiacs, and being buffeted by strong wind. The greater magnification was a bonus for the distant seabirds, and as I wasn’t trying to locate birds in thick forest the narrow FoV wasn’t really a problem. Ergonomics are not great in my opinion - my thumbs started to hurt after a while… but not bad as this was after a long day on deck.

… but for me standing on a vessel or sitting in a zodiac, is a rare occurrence, hence why my IS bins are definitely my second pair, and not my day-to-day bins.

 

[Mike Crawley]

For me, my humble opinion is that this isn’t aimed at birders like us. I think the likely audience is probably those (lucky) people to whom money is no object and can afford multiple trips to Galapagos and plan to do a glamorous cruise to Antarctica and do big luxury safari style expeditions.

 

[Conndomat]

I think they are improving.

Another point would be whether they are suitable for wearing glasses; there are currently hardly any IS binoculars on the market that can be used by the vast majority of glasses wearers.
But as you wrote above, everyone has priority aspects in use, a truly mass-market IS will be difficult to produce.

Andreas

 

[Mono]

For me, my humble opinion is that this isn’t aimed at birders like us.

I think the fact they launched it at the tech-fest that is CES, rather than at a birding event or Shot Show indicates their target market isn't die-hard birders or hunters.

 

[Hermann]

I would also rather buy a new IS binocular that fits my eyes and has good ergonomics (the Canon does not work for me) than the Visio.

I made the switch to a Canon 10x42 IS, a binocular I previously thought was an ergonomic nightmare. Took me 3-4 weeks to get used to it. No problem. The biggest problem was getting used to a harness, normal straps don't work for me with heavy binoculars.

BTW, I would guess the Visio will also take some time to get used to.

Hermann

 

[WRL]

Another point would be whether they are suitable for wearing glasses; there are currently hardly any IS binoculars on the market that can be used by the vast majority of glasses wearers. [...]

That is a bold statement. You got mumbers to prove it? I am wearing glasses and can use both Canon IS' (8x20, 10x42). Am I a minority?
Werner

 

[Conndomat]

That is a bold statement. You got mumbers to prove it? I am wearing glasses and can use both Canon IS' (8x20, 10x42). Am I a minority?
Werner

Canon 10×42 IS WP – Binoculars Today

Canon 8×20 IS – Binoculars Today

Canon 10x42IS Review

www.scopeviews.co.uk

"Canon claim eye relief of 16mm, but I measured about 12-13mm from the cup rim and that’s how it feels - I can’t see anything like the whole wide field with my specs on."

Yes, you belong to a minority!

12 or 13 mm EP layer may not be sufficient for most glasses wearers!

It depends on many factors: face shape (nose), how deep your eyes are, whether you are far-sighted or near-sighted etc.

As a farsighted person who wears glasses, I need at least 16mm. EP location and that is the same or even more for most far-sighted people.

That doesn't mean some people get along with the Canos but I'm sure that's a minority.

Andreas

 

[Patudo]

For what it's worth, I (also cursed with having to wear glasses) was able to use the IS 10x42 without issues on those occasions I tried it. I have tried the 12x32 and was able to use that too. I guess I am another of the minority...

It would be interesting to know how many glasses wearers could not use the Zeiss 8x25 Victory and 8x32 FL (both 13mm usable ER by Canip measurements). I don't think I've seen too many complaints, but it's most people who find the eye relief too short may not report it, just choosing a binocular with longer eye relief instead.

 

[Conndomat]

It would be interesting to know how many glasses wearers could not use the Zeiss 8x25 Victory and 8x32 FL (both 13mm usable ER by Canip measurements). I don't think I've seen too many complaints, but it's most people who find the eye relief too short may not report it, just choosing a binocular with longer eye relief instead.

The Zeiss FL 8x32 definitely doesn't work for me!

I assume you and WRL are nearsighted?

Look, binoculars that are suitable for glasses wearers would be at least 16mm for me. EP location, at least that would cover most users.

It's not for nothing that the top lenses Zeiss SF, Swarovski NL/EL and Leica Noctivid all have more than 16mm. EP position, which just doesn't want to alienate many people who wear glasses.

Andreas

 

[WRL]

[...]
I assume you and WRL are nearsighted?
[..]

Not me.
Werner