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Have scopes nowadays Porro or Roof prisms? (1 Viewer)

Yellow hammer

Active member
Sweden
Hello!
I have two Kowa TSN scopes (angled eyepiece) but I have no clue what type of prism it is inside. Porro or roof? I have searched on the sites from Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica, Kowa et c but I could not find any info.
This group on birdforum has such a high level on scopeinformation so I am sure you can help me.
All the best/Yellowhammer
 
Current TSN 77, 88 and 99 angled versions use a Schmidt roof prism. Earlier TSN 77 and 82 angled versions and current TSN 82SV and TSN angled versions of models smaller than 77mm use a combination of Porro followed by a semi-pentaprism.
 
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Current TSN 77, 88 and 99 angled versions use a Schmidt roof prism. Earlier TSN 77 and 82 angled versions and current TSN 82SV and TSN angled versions of models smaller than 77mm use a combination of Porro followed by a semi-pentaprism.
Thank you very much. Is this knowledge from a website or how do you know so much about scopes and prisms?
I have Kowa TSN-663 M Prominar. Do you know the prisms on that? And what does the letter M stands for?
Sincerely
 
Hi,

I think the 663 and the small body scopes use Porro prisms (for straight examples) or porro prisms followed by a semi-pentaprism for the angled ones. You can decide yourself - if the eyepiece is slightly offset to the side from the optical axis, there are porro prims at work...
The M is a later model of the 663 - probably with upgraded coatings too...

Joachim
 
if the eyepiece is slightly offset to the side from the optical axis, there are porro prims at work...
And then there are some angled Nikon scopes with an oversized offset Schmidt prism, which places the roof edge outside the light path and eliminates spiking and the need for phase coating.

John

PS:- A 1,25" erecting prism for astronomical scopes with the glass path outside the roof edge is now available. It provides an upright correct left/right image but is unfortunately 90°, which makes it less interesting for birding.
 
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And then there are some angled Nikon scopes with an oversized offset Schmidt prism, which places the roof edge outside the light path and eliminates spiking and the need for phase coating.

That's correct, but are the eyepieces for classic Nikon Fieldscopes offset to the side?

Joachim
 
If a scope has porro prisms - like my Kowa TSN 663M Prominar. Is there any advantage with ED lens in the objective then? (Kowa use the term XD, but its the same). What I’ve learned CA is not an issue with porro.
 
If a scope has porro prisms - like my Kowa TSN 663M Prominar. Is there any advantage with ED lens in the objective then? (Kowa use the term XD, but its the same). What I’ve learned CA is not an issue with porro.
The objective is the major source of longitudinal CA and in a scope the use of ED glass or fluorite crystal is mandatory for reducing colour fringing at higher magnifications.
There is of course some dispersion in a prism, but this would normally be taken into account in the overall design.

John
 
Just out of curiosity, do any scopes use Abbe-Koenig prisms?
Not today. The (excellent) Zeiss Dialyt 40x60 used an AK prism: Zeiss Dialyt 40x60

That scope was pretty interesting: It was made long before Zeiss (officially) introduced phase-coatings. But that scope didn't suffer from the inherent softness of all optics with roof prisms without phase coatings, unlike its predecessor, the Hensoldt 40x60 (Hensoldt Dialyt 40x60). I know both types, and the difference was quite obvious and definitely not just a question of different coatings on the lenses. I wonder if Zeiss didn't employ some sort of "trick" to get around the phase shift, possibly some sort of plastic foil. Otherwise that sort of image quality would not have been possible IMO.

BTW, that scope had a very slow objective, which meant it was basically free of CA even though it didn't have any "ED-lenses".

Hermann
 
The prism configuration in the angled Meopta S2 is unique. See post #5 in this thread.


I'd like to see that one in wider use.

Swarovski used an AK prism in the 30x75 S and 25-40x75 S draw tube scopes back in the 80s.
 
In relation to Swarovski's offerings . . .

Draw Tube Telescopes
As Henry indicates, the first series of AZF draw tube telescopes used Abbe-Koenig prisms.
The 30x75 version was introduced in 1967, and the 25-40x75 followed in 1983. They remained in production until 1992.

There were both standard and short versions of each. The short S versions were introduced in 1982 and 1983,
and used a 3 element objective (in a 2, 1 configuration), as opposed to the conventional 2 element cemented objective.
(The same distinction as with the original short/ CF and later standard/ IF versions of the DT binocular telescopes of 1982 and 1989.)

For each of the four, there were also near focus NZ versions via a 2 position switch. They were variously introduced in the early to late 1980’s.
(On the regular versions the closest focus distance was 20 m verses 8 m on the NZ ones.)


a) See the optics of a standard 30x75 model from an early guarantee leaflet
(and although not particularly clear, it has the same 6 element eyepiece as in the S NZ version below):

AZF 30x75.jpg


b) And for comparison, the optics of the 30x75 S NZ version are shown in an image from Henry, in post #6 at: New compact Zeiss Dialyt scope
(in addition to the third lens at the front of the objective, there's also a doublet in front of the prisms).

- - - -
In 1993, Swarovski introduced a new C series of draw tube telescopes using Schmidt-Pechan prisms
(C because the S-P prisms are compact compared to the A-K ones?)
See the optics of the current CTC 30x75 in post #3 at: CTC 30x75 question?
(the eyepiece also differs significantly from the AZF version).


Fixed Body Telescopes
Early fixed tube models from Swarovski (and Zeiss and Leica) used Porro prisms.
And as Henry indicates in post #2, the angled body versions needed an extra prism for the 45 degree offset.

In contrast with roof prism models, a single triangular Schmidt prism can provide a 45 degree offset,
while a straight body requires a Schmidt-Pechan prism pair.

The Swarovski AT and ST Porro prism models were introduced in 1990. And the ATS and STS roof prism models replaced them in 2002.


The optics of various Swarovski Porro and Schmidt prism models can be seen in post #9 at: Need Info about Swarovski ATM 65
• To help make sense of the Porro prism AT in the first image, see a half penta prism from: Half-Penta Prisms | Edmund Optics
Half Penta Prism.jpg

• With the ATM in the fourth image, the bottom surface of the Schmidt prism is roofed (there are 2 intersecting surfaces), so there is a total of 4 reflections
i.e. at the roof the light column is split in two, with each half of the column reflecting off one surface and then the other, and then recombining.

- - - -
And interestingly in 2014, Swarovski reverted to the use of Porro prisms on the STR model.
This was to enable the inclusion of an electronically projected reticle, see the detailed images at: STR Telescope - Reticle System


John
 
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Hi,

I think the 663 and the small body scopes use Porro prisms (for straight examples) or porro prisms followed by a semi-pentaprism for the angled ones. You can decide yourself - if the eyepiece is slightly offset to the side from the optical axis, there are porro prims at work...
The M is a later model of the 663 - probably with upgraded coatings too...

Joachim
There are many spotting scopes that use porro prisms, but are not angled to one side? Celestron/opticron etc.
I think I'm right in saying this?
The kowa porro prisms always seemto be set horizontally.
Thanks John
 
I have not heard an objective being called "slow". Pls what does that mean?
Richard

Hi,

the moniker fast focal ratio (focal length divided by objective aperture - or the other way round) comes from photography, were a fast focal ratio (smaller number or larger fraction) means shorter or faster exposure times are possible.

Fast lenses are tricky to make well and even very small defects have grave effects.

Joachim
 

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