Hairstreak ID? (1 Viewer)

[Adey Baker]

Any ideas on the ID of this Hairstreak taken recently (June 25th) in Spain?

I was staying at Tossa de Mar in NE Spain and there were many Ilex Hairstreaks, Satyrium ilicis, close to the town in the tree-covered hillsides and all seemed to have at least a hint of hairstreak on the forewings.

This one was taken on a day trip inland at a place called Condreu (I think!) higher in the hills. It was in a flowery/grassy area but there were many trees around.

The ground colour seems lighter than the other Ilex I had seen and there appears to be no hint of a hairstreak on the forewing.

Could it be False Ilex Hairstreak, Satyrium esculi?

This was the only shot I got before it zoomed off (like most of the others!)

 

[Adey Baker]

Come on folks, don't be shy...

 

[PaulK]

Possibly Ilex Hairstreak (Nordmannia ilicis) but I wouldnt be too sure. Do you have any views of the upperwing?

 

[Adey Baker]

'Fraid not, Paul, that was the only shot I got before it was away. Apart from the Purple Hairstreaks most of the family rarely give you a shot of the upperwings, unfortunately.

 

[madamcoolpix]

Hi, Adey! Fancy, but I've been taken photographs this morning of "something" that looks EXACTLY like your Hairstreak, and I've ID it as False Ilex Hairstreak. For me it is the only possible thing to be. I took a (bad) pic of a Ilex Hairstreak yesterday and it is much darker, and the pattern is different.

If you wish, when I download my pics of those two to my computer I post them here for you to compare.

I hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[PaulK]

Hi, Adey! Fancy, but I've been taken photographs this morning of "something" that looks EXACTLY like your Hairstreak, and I've ID it as False Ilex Hairstreak. For me it is the only possible thing to be. I took a (bad) pic of a Ilex Hairstreak yesterday and it is much darker, and the pattern is different.

If you wish, when I download my pics of those two to my computer I post them here for you to compare.

I hope this helps. Cheers!

I'd go along with that. The only reason I didn't go for False Ilex is because there are notches in the white line. False Ilex I thought had a straight line without any notches.

 

[madamcoolpix]

Paul, as far as I know, False Ilex white line can be quite variable, even be totally absent in the upper wing, as in Adey case and in mine. But the size, the general coloration and the type of orange marks are quite distinctive, in my experience (although I might be wrong).

 

[Adey Baker]

Hi, Adey! Fancy, but I've been taken photographs this morning of "something" that looks EXACTLY like your Hairstreak, and I've ID it as False Ilex Hairstreak. For me it is the only possible thing to be. I took a (bad) pic of a Ilex Hairstreak yesterday and it is much darker, and the pattern is different.

If you wish, when I download my pics of those two to my computer I post them here for you to compare.

I hope this helps. Cheers!

I'd be very interested in seeing your shots, Marian, for comparison

 

[madamcoolpix]

Well, I've downloaded my pics and... sorry but I think my Ilex Hairstreak is a False one too! The good thing of taking pictures of Butterflies is the possibility of checking the IDs later...

Anyway, as both individuals are quite different I'm posting both. You can see the differences in the upperwing: from almost all the white line to nothing. Sorry for the quality of the second pic, but it was going to be a "lifer" and I had to take a picture at any cost, even if the setting was impossible.

I've checked both species in a couple of Spanish Forums on insects and for me there is not doubt about the False Ilex Hairstreak.

I'm posting a link to one of these Forums too, I hope it works:

http://www.fotonatura.org/galerias/general/138540/

Cheers!

 

[Adey Baker]

Thanks, Marian. I'm quite confident now that my photo shows a False Ilex Hairstreak.

I agree that taking photos of butterflies is an almost essential part of the identification process, espaecially when you're in an unfamiliar area. They just don't wait around long enough to be srutinised minutely in the field!

Just for fun here's some more shots that I took; all around Tossa de Mar and I think most are Ilex, though the last one now looks quite a possible candidate for False Ilex.

There are large numbers of Cork Oak trees just outside the town and more of these little butterflies around than I'd care to count!

 

[madamcoolpix]

Adey, my experience with Hairstreaks is still short but the six pictures look like False Ilex to me. Here it is a link to an Ilex Hairstreak from Spain:

http://www.fotonatura.org/galerias/general/74515/

The spots are reddish and no orange, the spots are surrounded in black and the critter is in general very dark. The colourful part of the wing looks much more contrasted than in False Ilex, in my opinion.

I will study all this very carefully when I get my copy of the Tolman's book! I've learnt more on Hairstreaks during the last 24 h than in the rest of my 4 years involved in Butterflies!

Cheers!

 

[Adey Baker]

Adey, my experience with Hairstreaks is still short but the six pictures look like False Ilex to me. Here it is a link to an Ilex Hairstreak from Spain:

http://www.fotonatura.org/galerias/general/74515/

The spots are reddish and no orange, the spots are surrounded in black and the critter is in general very dark. The colourful part of the wing looks much more contrasted than in False Ilex, in my opinion.

I will study all this very carefully when I get my copy of the Tolman's book! I've learnt more on Hairstreaks during the last 24 h than in the rest of my 4 years involved in Butterflies!

Cheers!

The Ilex in that link certainly looks distinctive but this link shows how variable they can be: http://www.eurobutterflies.com/species_pages/ilicis.htm

Also check out: http://www.eurobutterflies.com/species_pages/ilicis.htm
http://www.guypadfield.com/ilexhairstreak.html
http://www.guypadfield.com/falseilexhairstreak.html
http://www.leps.it/

There's always the problems with various amounts of wear on the butterflies and, of course, we've got to trust that all of them have been identified correctly!

We should get up into the mountains and try out the Fritillaries, Blues and Erebia Ringlets - now they're a real challenge!

 

[madamcoolpix]

Now I'm really confused! It seems what books say not always must be followed "to the dot".

There's always the problems with various amounts of wear on the butterflies and, of course, we've got to trust that all of them have been identified correctly!

This is very true!!! When the pictures are not well ID they can be very confusing. But I trust the pictures of that Fotonatura Forum, as most of them are checked by experts in the comments.

But all this has been very instructive, nevertheless!

 

[Adey Baker]

But all this has been very instructive, nevertheless!

Very true!

My biggest problem is the fact that I only see Continental European butterflies once a year whilst on holiday and my only companion is my wife. She's interested in them in general (and even spots a few for me!) but has no specific desire to identify each individual - one small brown butterfly is the same as any other small brown butterfly to her!

We only have a relatively small range of species in Britain, most of which are not too difficult to ID, so it's totally different when we go abroad, unless we're accompanied by local experts who are aware of the variations/identity pitfalls, etc.

Incidentlly, Marian when you get your Tolman book, you'll see that it refers to 'orange' spots in Ilex and 'red-orange' spots in False Ilex!

 

[Andrew]

Sorry to butt in on this thread but I get what you are saying Adey about going abroad. Another problem is there are very few guides to what you may see as opposed to here where you can easily find info on what to expect to see at a certain place. Over there you are really on your own sometimes with just your Tolman!

It's enough to make me angrily frustrated sometimes and I am a 'beginner', there's worse to come!

 

[Adey Baker]

Sorry to butt in on this thread but I get what you are saying Adey about going abroad. Another problem is there are very few guides to what you may see as opposed to here where you can easily find info on what to expect to see at a certain place. Over there you are really on your own sometimes with just your Tolman!

It's enough to make me angrily frustrated sometimes and I am a 'beginner', there's worse to come!

No need to apologise, Andrew. We obviously feel the same about the subject!

The Tolman book is a really good companion to take along but when one is with one's family who aren't heavily into identifying everything they see then the lack of another 'fanatic' to bounce ideas off can be frustrating.

There are specialist holidays that cater for enthusiasts and take you to the hot-spots and point you in the general direction of all the goodies but they usually cost considerably more than the average holiday. They're not ideal if your partner isn't interested to the same degree as you are yourself.

We usually choose a straight forward holiday and, as my wife doesn't fly, it's invariably an all-in coach tour and we've seen a fair few sights (and sites!) that we wouldn't have done if we'd just gone on your average 'Costa' package tour. Having said that, this year we went to a well-known Costa Brava resort and most of my photos of butterflies/birds/dragonflies were taken within walking distance of the town, so you don't have to go somewhere off the beaten track to get different wildlife.

It's not easy to get too many new bird species (though I did 'tick' a couple this year) but the farther south or east you go or the higher you climb in the mountains the more likely you are to get a completely new set of butterflies, so I'm reasonably happy if I can ID at least the majority. My close-focussing 400mm lens on an SLR really comes into its own in these situations as you can get decent 'record' shots without wasting too much time stalking each individual (which would not go down too well with one's partner!)