Gull ID Sussex (1 Viewer)

[Southern Viking]

Herring Gull argenteus would be the expected species. Taken early January in Sussex, UK. Couple of things seemed odd, the bill looks a bit long forward of the gonys, with the dark mark on it, the eye is pretty dark (appears to be an adult?), and the streaking on the head and neck seems quite extensive. The structure generally looks a bit odd to me.

Any comments welcome.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

interesting bird=a Gull tfs! And before it get buried, my thoughts

• I agree with you, with no black on p5 a Herring Gull surely has to be considered
• yes, according to the excellent BB paper and other sources dark eyed Herring Gulls are regular but this is still puzzling me: after becoming aware of Caspian Gulls and dark eyes as a feature of them I looked at Gulls more intensly and from that got the experience that genuine dark eyed adult Herring Gulls are really rare (some mistake here? Reason? Maybe I mistake older immatures lacking black in the tail and primary coverts as adult?*)
• and I agree with you too, I get a strange feeling: head and bill looks quite similar to a small billed, gently round-headed= "Common Gull look alike" Caspian Gull, but carton like shifted (I hope thats understandable)

Conclusion? If forced, I would opt for an oder subadult Hering Gull (with the dark eye, black markings on the bill and the extensive head streaking as signs of immaturity. *if yes, than thanks so much. If no, than the same)

But I cant exclude the dark eye and bill shape as signs of Caspian Gull ancestry.So ... Thanks Lou and all

 

[lou salomon]

I see no Caspian traits in this bird. Primary pattern is just perfect for HG, presumably a local argenteus. I don't know if you have heard about the apparent recent increase in dark eyed HG, @Southern Viking, it is said that avian flew could be responsible for this.

 

[Southern Viking]

I see no Caspian traits in this bird. Primary pattern is just perfect for HG, presumably a local argenteus. I don't know if you have heard about the apparent recent increase in dark eyed HG, @Southern Viking, it is said that avian flew could be responsible for this.

Thanks Lou. I hadn't heard that about Herring Gulls. I know there's been a lot of Gannets with completely dark eyes, which are supposed to be the ones that have caught and survived avian flu. I guess it makes sence that the same could be true with other species of normally pale-eyed birds.

These photos were taken before Covid lockdowns even (January '19 or January '20, can't remember which), and I'm not sure if avian flu had really become a serious issue at that time?

Edit: have checked and these were taken 04/01/2020

 

[lou salomon]

well, dark eyed HGs have occured before avian flu. That head gives a bit of a Vega Gull feeling with its dark eye, but with that primary pattern it is just impossible...

 

[Southern Viking]

well, dark eyed HGs have occured before avian flu. That head gives a bit of a Vega Gull feeling with its dark eye, but with that primary pattern it is just impossible...

Do you think it's possible that it's a subadult with adult-like plumage but some immaturity in bare parts as Alexander suggested? That was my first assumption too, but the head looked quite strangely small too. I was partly wondering whether there was Caspian influence too, but you've answered that

 

[lou salomon]

Black marks to bill are not only immaturity signs but could result from the bird being slightly weak. They occure in healthy adult birds also.
Upper mandible is slightly overgrown resulting in a slight 'hook' and less pronounvced gonys but I can't tell if the bird is a young or older adult.

 

[Southern Viking]

Black marks to bill are not only immaturity signs but could result from the bird being slightly weak. They occure in healthy adult birds also.
Upper mandible is slightly overgrown resulting in a slight 'hook' and less pronounvced gonys but I can't tell if the bird is a young or older adult.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

In a couple of months time, I'll be trying to string (I mean see) juvenile Yellow-legged Gulls at the same location, and may well depend on yours and Alexander's input then too!