hgalbraith1949
Active member
Has anyone ever compared these 2? Opinions?
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comparison of NL 10x32 and SF 10x32 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hgalbraith1949
- Start date
Yes. I would take the SF 10x32 any day over the NL 10x32, and twice on Sunday. The SF is MUCH more glare resistant, has a smoother focuser, it is better balanced, has a better top load case, has a better strap, and it has normal strap lugs instead of those goofy FP lugs on the NL. It is also less expensive. That being said, remember any 10x32 can be finicky for eye placement because of the small EP. I would recommend the 10x42 SF if you want more comfort.
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The FOV is bigger on the NL 10x32! (132mm vs. 130mm). Light transmission is bigger too! (92% vs. 90%)
I have the NL 10x32 and like them. I never tried a SF 10x32. They would be nice too. I have read they are more prone to blackouts, but I think that is personal. So try it.
The SF 10x32 is lighter, even lighter than the specs say. I still don't why, but the NL 10x32 is ca. 30 grams heavier than stated. So it's 670 grams without covers/strap. Both not the smallest 32's on the market.
I have the NL 10x32 and like them. I never tried a SF 10x32. They would be nice too. I have read they are more prone to blackouts, but I think that is personal. So try it.
The SF 10x32 is lighter, even lighter than the specs say. I still don't why, but the NL 10x32 is ca. 30 grams heavier than stated. So it's 670 grams without covers/strap. Both not the smallest 32's on the market.
Your correct the transmission of the NL 10x32 is 92% and the SF 10x32 is 90%, but you couldn't detect a 2% difference in transmission. The FOV of the NL 10x32 is 396 feet versus 390 feet on the SF 10x32, which again would be unnoticeable. What you would notice is the glare on the NL, which would reduce the usable FOV by at least 10%!
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
NLs and SFs are both excellent. I think the optics are close enough to call equal, with the exception of much better glare / stray light control in the SFs in my experience. The focuser are great on both. I personally dislike the NL eyecups, ocular covers, objective cover attachments, and the FP system but these things are not deal breakers for most people, just a bit overengineered. In my experience between the tight ocular cover and hard to turn eye cups I end up with eye cups fouled due to ocular cover and eye cups unscrewing when trying to put them up/down for sunglasses and/or the IPD moving due to force required twisting the eyecups. So, for me, the SFs are the better tool for birding due to better ergonomics and glare control. Several friends prefer the optics of the NL by a bit despite the glare. Friends are split on the ergonomics. No one complains about pre FP ELs, Zeiss or Leica ergonómica but a reasonable percentage of folks find the NLs kind of annoying so best to try and see if it matters to you.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
NL is the sharper bino, more neutral in color and better edges. Glare issues are totally over blown.
EL is also sharper than the SF, slightly smaller FOV , still better edges and the most comfortable eye box of the three.
SF is also very sharp, uniquely, smooth focuser, the lightest of the three, not as bright as the others and some people have blackouts issues. There is also the deadly blue ring that some complain about around the edges. It’s more sensitive to eye placement , not a deal breaker though.
Imo the Swaros are built better, at least it feels that way (except when your armor is peeling off). All three will give that wow effect. My choice would be the NL. I prefer using my EL 8x32 over my SF 8x32. If I didn’t already have the EL, I would’ve went with the NL.
Paul
EL is also sharper than the SF, slightly smaller FOV , still better edges and the most comfortable eye box of the three.
SF is also very sharp, uniquely, smooth focuser, the lightest of the three, not as bright as the others and some people have blackouts issues. There is also the deadly blue ring that some complain about around the edges. It’s more sensitive to eye placement , not a deal breaker though.
Imo the Swaros are built better, at least it feels that way (except when your armor is peeling off). All three will give that wow effect. My choice would be the NL. I prefer using my EL 8x32 over my SF 8x32. If I didn’t already have the EL, I would’ve went with the NL.
Paul
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Color perhaps slightly? I don’t notice much difference. I don’t see the blue rings either. I certainly don’t see a resolution difference between them and would be surprised if anyone’s eyes could genuinely out-resolve either bin. A perception of one being sharper may exist of course. I disagree about the glare issue being overblown- for in the field use the two biggest differences are the glare and the (IMHO) problematic ergonomics of the NLs. But to each their own these are my opinions. I don’t critically test bins in lab conditions or use them for astronomy. I tote them around the world, largely in the tropics, and sort out what matters to me over a few months of field use. The NL does wow a bit more to look through at the shop or in good light but I basically won’t take them on a “real” birding trip. They are certainly inferior- for me- when looking into the canopy against harsh light and when dealing with glare, and I’m tired of tangled straps and the eye cups unscrewing when I want to wind them out.
I've seen a lot of Swaros where the eye cups come off when twisting them up/out. To me, it seems like the person at the factory isn't putting them on properly. I mentioned this to a dealer, they mentioned it to their Swaro rep, the Swaro rep said "they just aren't screwed in tight enough, so just tighten them". Now, whenever I come across a Swaro that does this - I put the cups all the way down, and then I just tighten them more (as if you're trying to force them to close more). For me - it solves the problem every time.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I tighten them as much as I dare (I have strong hands and actually don’t want to break them). It helps but they still untwist. At least on my NLs the resistance of the eye ups to being changed position is really high. You really do have to twist.
Who knows maybe I just have a particularly shit pair of eye cups or they just aren’t for me. If I weren’t regularly switching the eye cups up/down for use with sunglasses it’d not be a problem. But it’s annoying that the only bins I have with a problem like this are the NLs. Older ELs and a couple Zeiss and a pair of Nikons are all pretty much perfect for ergonomics.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
This is why I always suggest that everybody tries a few different binoculars under different lighting conditions. You really cant see these differences in a store for five minutes. Its all about, like what you said, the NL is inferior to you, others feel the other way. For some some people the blue ring is a deal breaker, you and some others don't see it. I see it but its not a deal breaker, thus its over blown. The interesting this is I see crescent glare in the bottom of the NL on occasion under certain conditions, but I see more veiling glare with the SF under more observing conditions. So everybody is different at what works and what may not. Opinions on ergonomics are all subjective.
On the Swaros (all of them) screw the eye pieces down to the bottom, then tighten it a snug and you good to go, never will unscrew, they're metal, they don't break like the plastic SF's. By the way the SF's eye pieces will unscrew the same way, if they were not tightened down at factory.
Paul
Paultricounty
Well-known member
I agree , Im not a big fan of the seven steps adjustment and there too light and vague. We never know where the right setting is on each one when doing exaclt what you say, going back and forth with and without sunglasses. The like EL system better.
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I don’t mean to be rude but I know how to tighten eye cups. I tighten them down to the point that I am afraid of breaking something. They will still loosen and eventually come off. Perhaps once every 1-3 days of real use. I have not had this problem with any other bins including ELs. I’ve had other problems with other bins - none are perfect. However I think it’s a bit shocking how many ergo issues the NL has for its price. I also know a few world birders that have already given up on it due to fogging problems and armor falling off. Neither has been an issue for me. I know it works well for many people, but I also know many who wish they could get all the outside bits of NLs rolled back to the EL era.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I am not trying to turn this into an NL bashing thread. I know many people who are happy with them. The optics are tremendous. But I also get tired of the absolutism presented here and the dismissal of differing opinions. Other friends of mine have been shouted down for the issues they have had with NLs (outside of BF) - it seems like a sacred cow that many don’t want to see critiqued. I am also happy to criticize Zeiss (breaking focusers, random hinge tension from the factory, breaking eye cups, etc).
I don’t know what use cases are like in this forum but I guess / gather I am the outlier here. My bins travel in my pack for 1-3 months at a time around the world and see hundreds of days of use per year and a lot of tropical birding. Most of my birding friends are somewhat similar - guides or biologists or otherwise out and about in the tropics more often than not.
I don’t know what use cases are like in this forum but I guess / gather I am the outlier here. My bins travel in my pack for 1-3 months at a time around the world and see hundreds of days of use per year and a lot of tropical birding. Most of my birding friends are somewhat similar - guides or biologists or otherwise out and about in the tropics more often than not.
Absolutely not my experience with Birdforum.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
I didn't think you were being rude at all. I was just making the suggestion because quite a few people don’t know how to solve the issue. It’s a pain in the neck if that’s happening every few times out in the field. I’ve used over a half dozen NL’s and never had the issue after snugging them down. It’s possible there is some threading issue why yours are not staying put, there was fellow in our group who had the same issue after tightening them down, Swaro took care of it , he never had the issue again. Our little groups seem to love the NL ergos, I guess those are the people who kept them 🤪. Same here, no issues with the armor on any of my Swaros, so far.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
The absolutism is the problem, if people were to just use the IMO more often there would be less tiring presentations.
