caspian gull redcar tarn west yorkshire uk (1 Viewer)

[Prestdj]

seen yesterday

i find large gulls very confusing

i think its a caspian gull eg shade of the grey upperwing and primary pattern look good i think, but im not sure help please

 

[Rotherbirder]

Your bird is a 2nd winter Common Gull.

RB

 

[kuzeycem]

Proportions look very off for Common to me, I'd say this is a 3rd winter Caspian.

 

[Prestdj]

Your bird is a 2nd winter Common Gull.

RB

i know a common gull and this isnt one bill is far too bulky for common, but i agree it does have a common gull appearance, noted and thanks

 

[SteveClifton]

Proportions look very off for Common to me, I'd say this is a 3rd winter Caspian.

I Agree.

 

[Prestdj]

im really confused

1 for common gull
2 for caspian

even birdguides think its common gull

day 1 of gulls and give up

 

[SteveClifton]

im really confused

1 for common gull
2 for caspian

even birdguides think its common gull

day 1 of gulls and give up

For me still very much a Caspian Gull. Proportions, as mentioned above, are all wrong for Common Gull, though I can see more than a passing resemblance!

Near-identical bird here: Larus cachinnans Don't give up just yet and follow your instincts...

 

[PJSharp]

For me still very much a Caspian Gull. Proportions, as mentioned above, are all wrong for Common Gull, though I can see more than a passing resemblance!

Near-identical bird here: Larus cachinnans Don't give up just yet and follow your instincts...

I am rubbish at gull ID, so ask in the interest of getting better...

The bill doesn't look like a Common Gull to me, too heavy, with a marked black band and large yellow tip. Yet the gull looks smaller/slighter than I would expect for Caspian. How would Ring-billed Gull be ruled out?

All the best, Paul

 

[SteveClifton]

For me still very much a Caspian Gull. Proportions, as you say are all wrong for Common Gull, though I can see more than a passing resemblance!

Near-identical bird here: Larus cachinnans

I am rubbish at gull ID, so ask in the interest of getting better...

The bill doesn't look like a Common Gull to me, too heavy, with a marked black band and large yellow tip. Yet the gull looks smaller/slighter than I would expect for Caspian. How would Ring-billed Gull be ruled out?

All the best, Paul

I don't think there is a single 'magic bullet' feature to separate this bird from RBG, especially given the variability in both species.
As with most gulls, structure plays a large part, and if seen in the field then size in comparison to other nearby gulls should indicate that this is a large gull. Obviously we don't have that luxury here, but there are clues that point away from both Common and Ring-billed.
I think the bill pattern is wrong for both of the smaller species, and also the shape too. Common tends to have a much shorter, stubbier bill. Ring-billed can of course have a much heavier bill than Common, but I feel its bill would be less pointed at the tip than we are seeing in this bird. The iris color of RBG would also likely be obviously pale in any individual older than a first year.

Both smaller gulls can have a bill band (broader in RBG than Common) but I think the combination of pale yellowish tip, a rather less clear-cut band, and those dark marks along the cutting edge is a much better fit for Caspian Gull.

Leg colour is variable but in this case the obvious pink colour wouldn't fit an older immature Common or Ring-billed (only 1st years have pink) whereas the color is fine for any age of Caspian, including this near-adult (3cy). Perhaps the nearest age of Common or Ring-billed Gull to this bird, especially in terms of wing tip pattern, would be one approaching 2nd winter (2nd calendar year) in which case leg color would likely be in the grey/green end of the spectrum (perhaps with just a hint of pink) rather than the obvious pink hue of this bird's legs.

In terms of wing-tip pattern, a 2cy Ring-billed would show less white in the wing-tips than this bird is showing. Common Gulls have more white at the tips, but other features mentioned above rule this species out.

The well-defined streaky collar is another good Caspian feature, even of full adults in winter. Common and RBG can have streaky heads too, but not usually so obviously arranged into such a clear-cut hind neck collar.

Another factor is that Ring-billed Gull is now extremely unlikely in the UK or Ireland, with I think only one regular bird being reported in recent months.

 

[PJSharp]

I don't think there is a single 'magic bullet' feature to separate this bird from RBG, especially given the variability in both species.
As with most gulls, structure plays a large part, and if seen in the field then size in comparison to other nearby gulls should indicate that this is a large gull. Obviously we don't have that luxury here, but there are clues that point away from both Common and Ring-billed.
I think the bill pattern is wrong for both of the smaller species, and also the shape too. Common tends to have a much shorter, stubbier bill. Ring-billed can of course have a much heavier bill than Common, but I feel its bill would be less pointed at the tip than we are seeing in this bird. The iris color of RBG would also likely be obviously pale in any individual older than a first year.

Both smaller gulls can have a bill band (thicker in RBG than Common) but I think the combination of pale yellowish tip, a rather less clear-cut band, and those dark marks along the cutting edge is a much better fit for Caspian Gull.

Leg color is variable but in this case the obvious pink color wouldn't fit an older immature Common or Ring-billed (only 1st years have pink) whereas the color is fine for any age of Caspian, including this near-adult.

Another factor is that Ring-billed Gull is now extremely unlikely in the UK or Ireland, with I think only one regular bird being reported in recent months.

Thank you, helpful explanation, Paul