Carl Zeiss Deltrintem (1 Viewer)

[Richard D]

When I started birding as a teenager the best I could afford were Soviet Komz 8x30s but really wanted the CZ Deltrintems. To be fair the Komz served me well for a few years - yellow tinted to the point that the push on orange filters that came with them weren't really needed but sharp enough in the centre and got me started. Rather a few years have passed since my teenage years but having a browse through ebay I came across what looked like a bargain pair of Deltrintems on a newly listed buy it now. Obviously there was a risk, but thankfully they proved to be in better condition than I'd even hoped - the binoculars as near mint as I've seen, seemingly perfectly colominiated and no internal dust or haze and just a few light marks on the outside of the case.

Is anyone able to date them? I searched back through a few threads but the europa site recommended seems to have gone. I'm guessing mid 80s?

 

[normjackson]

1983?

Wayback Machine

 

[Richard D]

1983?

Wayback Machine

Thanks - that looks right, about the time I first started birdwatching! Considering they're about 40 years old they're in remarkable condition, and whilst I've only had a brief look through the study window surprisingly useable.

 

[Dipperdapper]

Hello Richard,

Looks like a very nice acquisition. Congrats!

I was wondering how much better the Deltrintem is compared with the multicoated Jenoptem?

The late 1980s 8 x 30 Jenoptem I have is quite sharp with a good wide field of view, but does suffer from quite a bit of glare when glassing in the open.

Does the Deltrintem show glare? And how does the Komz behave with regard to glare?

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[Richard D]

Hello Richard,

Looks like a very nice acquisition. Congrats!

I was wondering how much better the Deltrintem is compared with the multicoated Jenoptem?

The late 1980s 8 x 30 Jenoptem I have is quite sharp with a good wide field of view, but does suffer from quite a bit of glare when glassing in the open.

Does the Deltrintem show glare? And how does the Komz behave with regard to glare?

Best wishes,

Neil.

Hi Neil,

They only arrived yesterday, and it's been chucking it down since so I've not put them through their paces. No views on glare yet - from memory (and it's been year's since I owned them) the Komz weren't great for glare control. I'll feed backback once I've had a chance to use them in anger. Initial impressions are very good central sharpness with quite a drop off to the edges but a wider than average FoV. Slightly warm tint, but not the obvious yellow I expected. CA seems well controlled in the centre and not terrible on the edges.

I think the 80's 8x30 Jenoptem and Deltrintem are identical besides the name - their advertising implied that and I've been unable to find a reliable source for any differences.

Richard

 

[Dipperdapper]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the feedback. My Jenoptem doesn't show much yellowing either. Indeed I was very surprised that a later (mid 1990s Japanese stock) Opticron Dioptron 8 x 32 had a much stronger yellow tint. Its anti-reflection coatings are quite different though. I attach a pic of the objective of the Dioptron. I wonder if the strong blue reflection indicates poorer blue transmission which might explain the yellowish tint( higher green and red transmissions)?

Not at all surprised about the weather; it's been bloody awful these last few days but turning back cold again here in Scotland.

Anyway I look forward to hearing more about your Deltrintem in due course. Love those old classics!

Very best wishes to you and yours for 2023!

Neil.

 

[dries1]

The coatings on the Deltrintem are the later coatings. In my two Octarem Jena samples, the earlier one had more of a blue/purple color reflection whereas the later model has the more brown reflection.

 

[Vesplume]

Hello Richard,

Looks like a very nice acquisition. Congrats!

I was wondering how much better the Deltrintem is compared with the multicoated Jenoptem?

The late 1980s 8 x 30 Jenoptem I have is quite sharp with a good wide field of view, but does suffer from quite a bit of glare when glassing in the open.

Does the Deltrintem show glare? And how does the Komz behave with regard to glare?

Best wishes,

Neil.

Hello Neil,

On allbinos, there is a review for the two models, the Carl Zeiss Jenoptem et Carl Zeiss Deltrintem in 8x30 of the same decade and multi-coated as well.

Carl Zeiss Jena Jenoptem 8x30W - binoculars review - AllBinos.com (Jenoptem)
Carl Zeiss Jena Deltrintem 8x30 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com (Deltrintem)

They have, as Richard has suggested, very similar results, except on internal reflections. As internal reflections seem to have more or less to do something with glare control, I think there is slightly less glare on the Deltrintem.

 

[Vesplume]

1983?

Wayback Machine

Thank you for the link

 

[yarrellii]

@Richard D I wonder if you had any chance to properly «meet your hero», and whether it has met the expectations. 40 years is a lot of time, so I wonder what do you make of them once you've used them

 

[Richard D]

@Richard D I wonder if you had any chance to properly «meet your hero», and whether it has met the expectations. 40 years is a lot of time, so I wonder what do you make of them once you've used them

Spent a couple of hours with them this morning - bright low winter sun in between overcast periods so a reasonable range of viewing conditions.

More thoughts than a real review:

Central sharpness is good - not up to my EL 8x32's but I didn't get any impression that I'd ever struggle with resolution - reminded me of the Conquest 8x32's - not the very best but more than good enough. I suspect that under magnification on a chart they'd probably fall short of the Conquest, but in real life that's the closest comparison I can think of - more than adequate.

Edge sharpness is a lot less impressive - it's not just field curvature there is visible coma. However field of view is so wide and the sweetspot generous enough that it wasn't really an issue.

CA control is good - not perfect but better than say a Trinovid. Central CA is very good with edge CA not terrible.

I did get a little veiling glare when close to the sun or sun on water, but it was far from terrible. No problems when looking through trees at a pale grey sky.

Focuser is smooth and positive - not superfast, but much faster than my Habichts.

Close focus I'd estimate at 8ft - adequate for me at least.

Brightness is good - not Habicht levels but bright.

Dioptre setting is easy, but also easy to knock out of place...

Eye relief is fine for me as I don't wear glasses but is clearly pretty short.

Eyecups are a little small and not the most comfortable - adequate at best.

Nice and light - even using the original thin leather strap over a jacket collar I barely noticed the weight.

Obviously they're not waterproof and I'd be wary of using them in persistent rain.

Handling is very comfortable for me, but then I spent several teenage years with very similar...

I was expecting a pronounced yellow tint, but I didn't find it that strong - warm yes, but really no more to yellow than Nikon are to red.

They're not going to consign my EL's to storage, but they exceeded my expectations. They're enjoyable to use and will get the occasional outing.

 

[yarrellii]

Very interesting. Thank you so much for taking your time and writing all this in such detail. It was a real pleasure reading through your experiences.

I was really curious because the CZJ 8x30 has been one of those "you shouldn't meet your heroes" moments for me. I'm not sure about my unit, but I do remember I thought it was a bit dim and the yellow tint robbed some of the pleasure. Here's my unit.



Not sure about the year (1988, if I remember correctly), but I do remember being vastly impressed by the Kowa YF 8x30 in comparison, maybe due to the more true-to-life colours, not sure about resolution. Back then I hadn't used as many binoculars as I have now, and I think my perception was different, so I wonder what would happen if I had them now.

 

[Binocollector]

I was really curious because the CZJ 8x30 has been one of those "you shouldn't meet your heroes" moments for me.

Same here. When you already handled a few good USSR optics and a few good Japanese porros from around the 70's then the Zeiss Jena binos are really nothing special.
I recently received a Kamakura, J-B133, "Bresser Condor", 8x30 that cleary is way sharper than both my Zeiss 8x30 and the Jenoptem 7x50. It knocked my socks off as it might just be the sharpest Japanese porro I own, apart from my 7x50, EWA, "Scope".
It looked like nothing much in the ebay pics -- the only intriguing detail was the "BaK-4"-label on the binocular. And center sharpness is up there with the Komz BPO 7x30, one of the sharpest binos in my collection.
Interesting fact is that an older J-B133 7x35 that I own is not even close to the 8x30 by the same company from a later period. So by now I have 4 Kamakura porros and the best is the "Bresser" 8x30. I never would have thought that.

 

[Richard D]

I think I was more impressed than I expected to be - 40 year old optics and more than useable. I enjoyed using them even if they'll only get an occasional outing. It might be nostalgia clouding my judgement but they're bright, sharp enough and focus nicely - I don't think there would be many circumstances where they would stop me making an id. that I could make with my ELs.

I honestly didn't find the colour cast that strong either - although others have described them as very yellow - I wonder whether there was big sample variation or whether storage conditions can effect the coatings? I was lucky - only paid £25 + postage for these, and obviously buying unseen was a gamble. I think if someone wanted to buy a cheap pair of binoculars for real use they could do worse even at the £75-80 good condition examples normally go for. I shall keep an eye out for the 10x big brothers (the 12x Dodecarems are the ones I really want to try but prices are very high for an experiment).

 

[Binocollector]

I didn't wanna rain on your parade btw or dismiss the Zeiss Jena binos. Build quality wise they are great, the older ones even more so, they also have better straigh light control. My 7x50 Jenoptem however arrived slightly out of alignment. I was able to fix it for my personal IPD but not in general.
I just had a look and my Deltrintem 8x30 is quite a bit older, #41339349. Before the multi-coated models. My 7x50 Jenoptem is multi-coated however.
I'd say many of those old optics are quite usable, apart from fogged up prisms, etc. which can be fixed.
I still like my Hensoldt 6x24 from maybe around the 40's and I recently looked through my aunt's old hensoldt Dialyt 8x56 which clearly outperformed my Kite Cervus HD 8x56 (which I had with me to compare) when it comes to edge sharpness.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

We have investigated a Zeiss Deltrintem from 1953, the transmission data are on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor. Our sample was , as I mentioned, from 1953 and the transmission was around 65-70% and no yellow color cast, actually it had a fairly neutral color representation. The sample investigated by Albinos quoted above was from 1985 and had a higher light transmission with a fairly stong yellow color cast. So between 1953 and 1985 things seems to have changed in the Zeiss factory.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[John A Roberts]

One factor in the overall increase in transmission may be as simple as the coating of more of the lens surfaces.

In the early years after WWII, typically only some of the air-glass surfaces on binoculars were single coated.
(Swarovski being the obvious exception with dual layer coating).

It was not until the 1970's that manufacturers started to make the distinction between 'coated' and 'fully coated' offerings;
and later between 'multicoated' and 'fully multicoated' offerings.


John

 

[tenex]

I recently received a Kamakura, J-B133, "Bresser Condor", 8x30...
Interesting fact is that an older J-B133 7x35 that I own is not even close to the 8x30 by the same company from a later period.

Where would this say J-B133? (When I google that I get Bushnells.) And suggestion for anyone sharing experience with such models: I'd be glad to have approximate dates of manufacture mentioned. I might sometimes guess the right decade (c.1980 here?), but would like to put them in better context.

 

[Binocollector]

Where would this say J-B133?

On the inside of the barrel, right next to the prism.
On most models it's on the front part of the hinge.
Can't tell you anything about the date of manufacture. I'd guess end of the 70s or beginning of the 80s.
A lot of Kamakura binos were sold by German brands, for example "Revue" and "Eschenbach".

 

[Patudo]

Hi Richard:

Something very similar (8x30 Jenoptem) was my first introduction to the great German manufacturer. I loved the wide field even though I had to remove my glasses to use it, and the yellow colour cast didn't bother me then (and probably still wouldn't). I sometimes wonder whether the binocular you use the most early in your career accustoms you to a particular type of image, as over the years I have tended to own mainly Zeisses. It was light and handy (I think porros in x30 size don't lose much to roofs in terms of handling) and given how much I got when I sold it, I probably should have kept it. They're not a binocular to use in poor or even marginal weather, but on a nice day later in the year, and when you need a lightweight binocular, they and similar porros are great. I did feel it was prone to glare, distinctly more so than say a Swarovski SLC 8x30 mark II with which I was able to compare it to on many occasions. But from what I've seen, many of the older 8x30 porros don't contend well with glare.

From what I gather the Jenoptem range had more "mass-produced" components and cost a little less than Deltrintem/Dekarem (which were themselves already a lot less expensive than Zeiss West, of course). The build quality of the Jenoptem I owned didn't really impress me, it was adequate but not much more. I've heard the older single coated versions were better made and had a more neutral colour rendition, but the multi-coated versions were brighter. To my mind the Zeiss Jena T3M multi-coatings, even the ones in my Nobilem, aren't quite as good as Zeiss West's T*, but (importantly) are good enough, noticeably better than single coatings. (Like yarrelli I liked the image the Kowa YF showed me better - I suppose that's what modern coatings do for you.)

The decent Japanese porros of the time might well be (I need to note I haven't handled many in the 8x30 class) likely as good, if not better. The Swift 7x35 I still own is definitely ahead of the Jenoptem in terms of what one might call "fit and finish", and indeed not all that far off a Zeiss West. It's a shame the Japanese copies/later licensed versions were not made by the suppliers of Bushnell/Swift etc.

Best,

patudo

PS. Rubber eyecups for Zeiss Jena 8x30 and 10x50 used to be available and might still be.