APC 42 Stabilised for Pelagic Trips and Sea Watching? (2 Viewers)

[Jon.Bryant]

I have been toying with the idea of getting a pair of stabilised binoculars for a big pelagic trip next year.

Does anyone have experience of the using the 12 or 16x Kite binoculars on medium and smaller sized vessel (say 20 to 150 passengers)? If so are these binoculars any good?

Last time I did a big pelagic, I found my EL 10x42 fine to use, so I have a niggling feeling that perhaps I don’t need another pair. As I think my 10s work fine, I would be really reluctant to get the 12x, as I don’t think I would see that much difference. That said I am a bit concerned 16x will be too higher magnification.

Also has anyone experience of using the 16x for seawatching from land? I can see the narrow field of view would be a negative, but if the image stabilisation subdues being buffeted by the wind, that would be a plus. Whereas the 16x are less powerful than nearly all scopes, a steady and reasonable magnified image could be a good solution. I understand the bins are IPX7. Can anyone confirm if they stand up to a good soaking on a sea watch?

 

[kabsetz]

I have almost no experience with the Kites, having only tried them briefly in a store and at a birding fair.

That said, I think you will be very happy if you have IS binoculars on a pelagic trip. You will see so much more and be able to identify pelagic birds at much greater distances.

If you are not expecting high seas and lots of boat movement, the best option might be the Canon 15x50. If there is a lot of sway, then perhaps the Kite or one of the Fujinons would work better. I use the Canon 10x42 IS L for everything, including as a marine binocular while sailing. Even in very rocky conditions, it is much better than non-stabilised binoculars, but its 0.8 degrees of correction angle makes it less than optimal for small boats.

You would do very well to have an IS binocular along, but of course you should also take the EL

- Kimmo

 

[corvid-8]

I invested in a pair of Kite 12x42 in August this year, BTW still on the same configuration of batteries in MY real life use.
Have not used them on a boat but have worked from a boat surveying birds several years ago and wish I had had them then. They would have been easier on the eyes and stomach (not a lover of boats/sea).
Expect a narrower FOV obviously but the central positioning of the eyes (I wear glasses) is enhanced with the IS and the loss of light (on paper) somehow is non existent.
Do NOT put them up to your eyes too fast to prevent motion in view, something you get used to, a nanosecond is all it takes to stabilise . The weight and ergonomics in fact help the handling , focus is top notch but as they are 12x42 they do need a little more "driving" then say 8x42/32 etc.
I would trust the water shedding qualities, armour is solid, feel is dry not clammy rubber and would insist you get the HEAVY DUTY neck strap as it evens the balance/weight better, the strap that comes is much more flimsy.
These Kites get a lot of use now, especially on the coast and large lakes, marshes, goose counts etc in fact anywhere where a lot of continuous scanning takes place.
It took me a time to find a companion to my EL 8x32 that was not a small step up and "same old - same old". They are so different that it is an easy choice for me now to pick which bins' to take where.
Downsides, only thing in operator error is , up to eyes too fast and focusing on birds flying too fast too near (too much of a throw in focusing).Some slight CA in extreme contrast but what binocular is that perfect and easily adjusted with tipping the eye contact slightly on the eye pieces up /down.
I can recommend these for what I needed, but for another person wants, it is up to them to try.
Must admit tho' the 12x can be spectacular at times and the IS does work.
ps; when things are quiet on the bird front you can pretend you are in a Star Wars Movie because of their design

 

[pbjosh]

No experience with the Kites but the new Fujinon TSX-1440 is definitely superior for my use to any of the Canon offerings. 6 degrees of stabilization vs 1, optics superior to all but the 10x42 (about as good, honestly they are optically excellent and well above the non L Canons), a respectable weight and FOV, they are tremendous from mid sized boats.

They can be had in the US on sale frequently, I got them there from B&H for quite a bit less than what they would have been in Europe, and had them carried over by a friend. Tremendous tool, up there with a thermal scope and a good recorder/mic as the best birding tools I have ever bought.

 

[Mike Crawley]

I use EL 10x42 almost exclusively, and have never tried stabilised binoculars. I only know one person who regularly uses stabilised binoculars.

The majority of the pelagic trips I have been on tend to be on open boats that can carry up to 80 people but take 40 "customers" as a maximum. On these trips I imagine that x16 would make it difficult to get on the birds which came close to the boat (European and Wilson’s Storm Petrel being good examples), although looking for birds down the wake might be O.K.

The pelagic trips I did in New Zealand had a maximum of 6 customers (not a big boat) and various Albatross, Shearwater and Petrel species came very close to the boat (these trips included a warning that Albatross have sharp beaks - keep your hands inside the boat !!)

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Thanks for the feedback. Those using IS and the Kite bins seem fans, which is good the know.

Sorry, I should have been clearer about the type of vessels where I think the 16 could be useful - small to medium expedition vessels with up to 150 berths (not people). I agree that the narrow field of view would probably not be great for small vessels where the birds can come very close, but if you are birding from the bridge deck on an exhibition vessel, then perhaps IS bins are an option.

I will have a look at the Fujinon, but as I don’t seem to generally suffer hand shake with 10x, I wouldn’t be over enthusiastic about getting a similar magnification to my EL 10x - I think they’re needs to be more of a differentiator than just the IS system.

I also think that perhaps 16x could be interesting for land based sea watches, particularly as wind buffeting can make keeping bins or a scope steady problematic.

Finally, I suppose you could carry them in a back pack in reserve. I often carry a 62mm scope with 24x wide angle when walking, but this still means lugging a tripod around. Perhaps 16x could be a lighter compromise, with no need for a tripod.

 

[Mike Crawley]

Thanks Jon, a whole different experience to those I have had.
It does strike me that a vessel’s built to "sleep" 150 people will be fairly substantial. The cruise ships I have seen of equivalent size look pretty stable. That said, I have never been on one and certainly not in "interesting" weather.

If nobody on here has an answer, I’m not sure how you can resolve this question.

Good Luck

 

[edwincjones]

...........

If nobody on here has an answer, I’m not sure how you can resolve this question.

Good Luck

You resolve this question by just getting one, the one that seems best for you, and going on the trip.

Three seemly good options of the Kite, the Canon 10x42IS or the Fujinon 14v40 TS-X.
I have the Fujinon and the IS and 14X is great but the FOV at 4 degrees is limiting,
the Canon has more FOV but less IS and mag,
the Kite is less known to me but is smaller and lighter. I considered the Kite before the fuj
but could not get in the US and was concerned about international returns.

Based on my internet readings each would work.

edj

 

[Jon.Bryant]

You resolve this question by just getting one, the one that seems best for you, and going on the trip.

Yes I think you are right. Make a decision and do it. Glad to know however, that nobody seems to be saying 'don't do it! It will be a horrid mistake you will regret!'

A vessel with 150 berths sounds quite large, but it is not really. When I did the last trip, they closed the outer decks in rough conditions, but still when we were allowed back out, one birder went sliding across the bridge deck, crashing into the hand-railing. The rolling motion can be quite horrid. That said the movement is quite slow, so not bad for normal bins - you just get the feeling that things are slowly tipping over and that your feet may slid out from underneath you (which they obviously can). I will buy IS bins with higher mag, as from my experience stuff can be quite distant at times. As the boats are generally travelling and not chumming you are catching stuff passing by, but not super close in a chum slick. That said, my experience is that some species seems to take advantage of the wind shear and cruise close alongside or over the vessel, sometimes following for vessel for hours at a time - and when an Albatross does this, you often don't need bins at all!

My next trip is a little way off - New Zealand Subarctic Island plus Chatham next December, but I am keen to get the bins well in advance. I also really want to do the Pacific Odyssey, so another opportunity to use the bins one day.

The coming trip to NZ reminds me of a story from a birder I met on the last expedition. He did the Subarctic Island, but when they got to Snares the weather was rough and they couldn't approach or zodiac around the island. He could see through his bins some little white specks, which were allegedly Snares Island Penguins, but they weren't really tick-able views. Unfortunately the expedition schedule didn't allow for the vessel to linger for another shot the next day, so he ended up seeing the island but not the penguins! - perhaps if he had higher mag IS bins, the white dots may have been slightly more convincing?

 

[edwincjones]

If you expect the waters to be rough and the wildlife distant, the fujinon with it better IS would be my choice,
but perhaps not as good later on solid ground. Its 2.9# weight requires a harness-at least for me.
The canon weights 1/2# less and wider FOV more helpful for closer objects- maybe the best all around pair.
The 1 1/2# Kite seems the most portable with higher mag and 3.9 degree FOV (B&H)-neck strap for me.

I think this choice would be easy if you could go to a dealer with all three.

edj

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I think this choice would be easy if you could go to a dealer with all three.

Again I think you are right but Fujinon seem rare in the UK. Wex sell them, but the website says they are direct from their stockist with a minimum 4 week delivery period. I therefore suspect that stock is not held in the UK and testing a pair will not be possible.

It is also a bit of a pain the Kite seem to also have limited stockist in the UK. The nearest one (which is not near at all!) doesn't stock Canon. I have however, tried the Canon before and didn't really take to them - the ones I looked at were too heavy, I didn't like the feel in your hands, the eye cups were uncomfortable, and I was not so keen on having to press the button to stabilize the image. On a recent trip there was also a couple who both had Canon IS bins, and both of them seemed to be regularly having to change batteries, suggesting that the bins are also a bit power hungry. All-in-all my initial views or the Canon bins has put me off, which is a shame as I generally like Canon stuff (particularly their cameras).

I have also tried the Opticrons, but think that a 30mm objective lens has its limits, especially at 14x and I was not super impressed. Not truing to be snobby, but they are also at a different price range to Fujinon, Canon or Kite. That said, there is a rumored that they will be expanding their range and releasing mark 2 versions of some of their current models in 2023.

I think I have settled on the Kite bins, and was really looking for comment on this make. With the comments above, I have decided to make the long trip to a store, have a good look at the 12x and 16x, and then hopefully decide a buy one of them.

 

[William Lewis]

Again I think you are right but Fujinon seem rare in the UK. Wex sell them, but the website says they are direct from their stockist with a minimum 4 week delivery period. I therefore suspect that stock is not held in the UK and testing a pair will not be possible.

It is also a bit of a pain the Kite seem to also have limited stockist in the UK. The nearest one (which is not near at all!) doesn't stock Canon. I have however, tried the Canon before and didn't really take to them - the ones I looked at were too heavy, I didn't like the feel in your hands, the eye cups were uncomfortable, and I was not so keen on having to press the button to stabilize the image. On a recent trip there was also a couple who both had Canon IS bins, and both of them seemed to be regularly having to change batteries, suggesting that the bins are also a bit power hungry. All-in-all my initial views or the Canon bins has put me off, which is a shame as I generally like Canon stuff (particularly their cameras).

I have also tried the Opticrons, but think that a 30mm objective lens has its limits, especially at 14x and I was not super impressed. Not truing to be snobby, but they are also at a different price range to Fujinon, Canon or Kite. That said, there is a rumored that they will be expanding their range and releasing mark 2 versions of some of their current models in 2023.

I think I have settled on the Kite bins, and was really looking for comment on this make. With the comments above, I have decided to make the long trip to a store, have a good look at the 12x and 16x, and then hopefully decide a buy one of them.

I tried all the kite's at their stand at birdfair this year. The 16x42 stood out, I was very close to buying them, only the resale value put me off, I can't afford to buy my optics without that in mind.

Not much difference in the Fov of the 12x and 16x so it would have been the 16x for me. Outstanding detail at range and the ergonomics, weight, waterproofing, spare battery compartment, auto off system, eye cups were all good. I'd have a pair if I could afford for them to go wrong out of warranty - not that that's something that I have any evidence would happen, they seem solidly built - I believe the latest ones are made in Japan. There's also an accessory rubber armour that I think would be a worthwhile addition if you do get them.

Will

 

[edwincjones]

............. With the comments above, I have decided to make the long trip to a store, have a good look at the 12x and 16x, and then hopefully decide a buy one of them.

👍

 

[smiths]

I have been using the Kite APC 12x42 for one year now and am absolutely thrilled with them.
Formerly, I have always used Leica and Swarovski;
I own a pair of Swarovski EL 10x42 but since getting the Kite I only use them for passerines in woodland or thickets (where the Kite APC perform very poorly). For everything else (waterfowl on a pond, gull roosts, waders, visible migration, seawatching, raptor watching etc) it is just so much nicer to have a very stable view and to be able to take in feather details at leisure.
I have not used them from a boat yet but my colleague has (we are both ecological consultants, so we use these binoculars for work as well);
he is still lyrical about using the Kite APC 12x42 on several boat trips he did while on holiday in Scotland and being able to pick up stormies before anyone else got on to them each and every time.

Of course, the quality is not quite the same as that of the top brands like Swarovski: you get a narrower field of view, there may be some glare when looking against the light, and the view may be very wobbly for one or two seconds if you put the bins up to your eyes with a sudden, quick movement (for example when trying to get them onto an erratically flying passerine or swift overhead), but these minor flaws are completely outweighed by the advantages of having a stabilised view and higher magnification, in my opinion.

 

[Winterdune]

I mainly use Swarovski 8x32 ELs but have a pair of Kite 10x30 APCs, and have used them on the Scillonian crossing to Scilly and also seawatching when it's blowing a gale - and the IS is outstanding. It's like achieving inner peace! However the trade off is image quality (they clearly aren't alpha glass) and fov (and the 10x30s are wider than the 10x42s). When Kite (or another maker) produce a pair of stabilised bins with a decent wide field and better optics I think I'll switch from Swarovski completely.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Finally made the plunge and got the Kite APC 16x, after trying 12 and 16x in store.

Very pleased so far.

On test both magnifications seemed to have the same field of view, so the manufacturer’s data seems correct.

I haven’t found the fov too limiting at the moment - the ergonomics seem good, and when I raise the bins to a bird it is well centred, so no need to search around. That said I can see it would be more of a problem if you were trying to get on to something that you haven’t picked up with the naked eye.

I will advise how I get on with them on the expedition boat, but that is some time off.

As a boost to my confidence the store owner mention he had sold a pair to a certain seabird expert on the Isles of Scilly.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Just completed my first pelagic using the Kite APC 16x 42. What can I say - they are great!

Rock steady vision from onboard the vessel and even when we were in zodiacs. All the buffeting from the wind simply disappears.

At one point I called a Wilson’s Storm Petrel. Another passenger got on to the bird and described it a third person as ‘imagine the greatest distance you could safely ID a Wilson’s and add 50%’ - well guess what, with 16x you can ID those distant individuals!

Battery life was also exceptional (less than 3 sets of batteries in 15 days!).

The only criticisms are
1/ Some brands of rechargeable AA don’t fit (are too tight). I suspect if you forced them in, you would never get them out! Therefore test battery fit before starting a trip!

2/ The bins are a bit dark in poor light (evening gloom), but this is to be expected.

3/ Due to the relatively short focal distance, it was ‘hard to keep up’ and keep in focus some birds approaching head on. I actually used a Cotton Carrier sling, to carry my other bins on my hip, just to get greater depth of field and wider field of view if necessary, but rarely used these bins. OK you look a bit of a plonker with two pairs of bins, but this will definitely be my new ‘look’ for all future pelagics.

 

[corvid-8]

The only criticisms are
1/ Some brands of rechargeable AA don’t fit (are too tight). I suspect if you forced them in, you would never get them out! Therefore test battery fit before starting a trip!

Bit concerned about this !
When I bought my Kite 12x42 I enquired why they ONLY recommend ordinary batteries NOT rechargeable (see, Premium (Alpha) vs Image stabilized ) Please read replys on batteries.
KIte in Belgium says NO only used std batteries NOT rechargeable .

Battery life was also exceptional (less than 3 sets of batteries in 15 days!)

Well, as mine are part of a TRIO of bins I use in birding ONE SET lasted me a year. (Normal NOT chargeable)
Would hate your new Kites to get damaged or out of warranty.
regards

 

[fazalmajid]

I use Eneloops in mine and never had any issues.

 

[FVG]

Why would you take a risk with rechargeable batteries if the Kite uses so few batteries.