very important for this species survival
. . . so you'd rather wait until the 'politicians' (who they, by the way?) form a coherant survival strategy, tried and endorsed by other experts all dovetailed neatly to create a plan of action in aid of the sbs? Meanwhile - erm . . . they die out.or alternatively :
a) this is absolutely undoubtedly hastening the bird's extinction in the wild
b) this is releasing the pressure on the governments responsible for the bird's natural stop-off points as once SBS is extinct in the wild they can just say the magic words 'fait accompli' and carry on draining and developing at will
c) this is creating a dangerous precedent that could lead to other species being placed in peril as other governments will be busy scribbling the other magic words 'Slimbridge get-out clause' in their little black notebooks
or alternatively :
a) this is absolutely undoubtedly hastening the bird's extinction in the wild
b) this is releasing the pressure on the governments responsible for the bird's natural stop-off points as once SBS is extinct in the wild they can just say the magic words 'fait accompli' and carry on draining and developing at will
c) this is creating a dangerous precedent that could lead to other species being placed in peril as other governments will be busy scribbling the other magic words 'Slimbridge get-out clause' in their little black notebooks
or alternatively :
a) this is absolutely undoubtedly hastening the bird's extinction in the wild
b) this is releasing the pressure on the governments responsible for the bird's natural stop-off points as once SBS is extinct in the wild they can just say the magic words 'fait accompli' and carry on draining and developing at will
c) this is creating a dangerous precedent that could lead to other species being placed in peril as other governments will be busy scribbling the other magic words 'Slimbridge get-out clause' in their little black notebooks
I completely disagree;
Captive breeding is always second best to keeping a species going in the wild and without conservation efforts aimed at habitat protection/restoration is going to be at best a way of buying time, however which would you rather have:
1) A wait-and-see approach of hoping that east Asian governments can get their act together and prioritise survival of a bird species over development (bearing in mind these countries include some who don't even put human rights of their own citizens ahead of development!). Hope habitat can be preserved and the species saved before it goes extinct with no hope of recovery.
OR
2) Try to establish a captive breeding programme to allow at least the continuation of the species in captivity so that whilst efforts at solving the root causes of the decline such as habitat loss are solved, the species can be safely preserved.
Congratulations to the WWT for their efforts; all you have to do is read the story of the mauritian kestrel to realise that sometimes captive breeding is vital to species survival.
Tom
Congratulations to the WWT for their efforts; all you have to do is read the story of the mauritian kestrel to realise that sometimes captive breeding is vital to species survival.
Tom
i don't know why you have posted this reply, as it is mostly un true, un called for(i know how hard the wwt and rspb work to save the habitats and and the species that live in them and i think it is wrong for you to be putting them down like this, when all you can do is criticise.) and very negative:cat:
I'm hardly the only one unhappy about this program accelerating the extinction of this species in the wild. .
Unfortunately I suspect you're correct, Simon. I can imagine the only real concerns the twitcheroos would have about the breeding programme would be if one of the subjects were to find itself 'on the outside' - crikey what a kerfuffle that would cause "Is it a genuine 'rare'?" - "could it have gotten here of its own accord?" and most importantly - "CAN I TICK IT?!!!!"We haven't been using this planet sustainably in so many ways.
Ecosystem management is key, captive breeding programs are a bit of a last chance, but it can work.
It's a relief to find a few people interested in this thread enough to voice an opinion. It's an indictment on our society that threads like the mega vagrants & "list of lists" rubbish get so much attention compared to this thread and real world issues.
Extinction is hard to accept though, much easier to tick off species for self gratification than get involved in the real world.
I've twitched, but through love of biodiversity, I'm now dedicated to conservation and sustainable food production, so good can come from twitching!
So many passionate twitchers ranting about their precious lists, while our precious biodiversity withers away, that's a bit depressing isn't it? More depressing to me than this thread, at least this has some relevance outside of selfish minds.
I think it's important news, but I bet a vagrant SBS in UK would get more attention and posts.
The general consensus is that the bird will be extinct in the wild very soon anyway as the population decline has been so rapid. The choice was something like this:
(1) probably extinct in ten years in the wild and none in captivity or, take a hit on recruitment and..
(2) probably extinct very slightly quicker in the wild (let's say nine years) and lots in captivity.
Which would you choose?
cheers, alan
Extinction in the wild is extinction in my book.
to me, whichever way you look at it, we've failed and we will continue to fail. Extinction in the wild is extinction in my book. I can't fathom this idea that people are a bit selfish right now but if we keep these birds going in captivity then one day homo sapiens will see the light and we'll be able to release them all and everything will be happy ever after. Aint gonna happen. If we can't solve heavy predation of nests right now, why are we going to be able to solve it in 10 or 20 years ? Is development pressure going to decrease in the heavily-populated Asian countries housing SBS stopovers ? No, it's only going to get worse
I'm hardly the only one unhappy about this program accelerating the extinction of this species in the wild. I know people who are downright bloody livid about it. I'd be interested to see you argue that taking eggs from the wild is going to increase the numbers of birds in the wild. Go on, have a go. Not just you. Anyone, feel free. The floor is yours...as for points 2 and 3, these were not statements of fact; just devil's advocate arguments, but ones which may well have some validity. How do you know I'm not right ? I'd suggest I'm very likely to be...
that's assuming these birds are ever released back in Chukotka or wherever at all and the Gods for a day don't fancy releasing them in the Western Pal in the hope they set up routes between the European Arctic and lets say Mauritania for the winter. Discuss...
I'm hardly the only one unhappy about this program accelerating the extinction of this species in the wild. I know people who are downright bloody livid about it. I'd be interested to see you argue that taking eggs from the wild is going to increase the numbers of birds in the wild. Go on, have a go. Not just you. Anyone, feel free. The floor is yours...
as for points 2 and 3, these were not statements of fact; just devil's advocate arguments, but ones which may well have some validity. How do you know I'm not right ? I'd suggest I'm very likely to be...
that's assuming these birds are ever released back in Chukotka or wherever at all and the Gods for a day don't fancy releasing them in the Western Pal in the hope they set up routes between the European Arctic and lets say Mauritania for the winter. Discuss...[/QUOTE]
why would that have any less problems than their natural habitat?
why would that have any less problems than their natural habitat?