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Please help ID Zosterops japonicus or Zosterops simplex, Jiangsu prov, East of China (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter deanman
- Start date
I've only definitely seen japonicus, although the bird we saw in Hanoi before the split should be Swinhoe's according to the distribution maps on 'Birds of the World' online. However, these maps are based on e-Bird observations, so there may be circularity here, in that people may be making the ID based on location, which then reinforces the idea that this species is the one in that location (I'm a bit of an e-Bird sceptic, especially when it comes to difficult birds). The distribution does seem to possibly overlap in your region.
Anyway, the descriptions on 'Birds of the World' differ in their descriptions of the underparts (though whether this is definitive or not I don't know):
japonicus: upper breast lemon-yellow, rest of underparts pale grey, mostly buff to tawny-olive on flanks and often whole undersurface, except for whitish centre of belly
simplex: throat and upper breast lemon-yellow, rest of underparts pale grey
Since your bird clearly has buff flanks, it should be japonicus.
The forehead is said to be yellower in simplex, but I can't see it myself in online photos.
Vocalisation doesn't seem to differ much according to 'Birds of the World'
For what it's worth, my Hanoi bird had grey underparts with a faint buff wash, but not the strong buff underpart colouring I am used to in birds here in Japan (although in some birds, it is not always obvious)
I hope this helps, though I hope someone more confident that me on this split comes along, if it is in fact possible to distinguish them confidently on view. I think the split was based on DNA.
Anyway, the descriptions on 'Birds of the World' differ in their descriptions of the underparts (though whether this is definitive or not I don't know):
japonicus: upper breast lemon-yellow, rest of underparts pale grey, mostly buff to tawny-olive on flanks and often whole undersurface, except for whitish centre of belly
simplex: throat and upper breast lemon-yellow, rest of underparts pale grey
Since your bird clearly has buff flanks, it should be japonicus.
The forehead is said to be yellower in simplex, but I can't see it myself in online photos.
Vocalisation doesn't seem to differ much according to 'Birds of the World'
For what it's worth, my Hanoi bird had grey underparts with a faint buff wash, but not the strong buff underpart colouring I am used to in birds here in Japan (although in some birds, it is not always obvious)
I hope this helps, though I hope someone more confident that me on this split comes along, if it is in fact possible to distinguish them confidently on view. I think the split was based on DNA.
Thanks a lot. MacNara.
Hi Deanman. I was hoping that someone with experience of the migration areas of these species, as well as their resident areas might respond because I really wonder if these newish splits can be ID'd visually. andyb39, James Eaton, or Rockfowl and others: Any comments?
Anyway since BF is a bit pandemic-quiet, here are a few photos (all by me).
1, 2 and 3 are the buff breasted Japanese White-eyes at their buffiest. (The pair in 3 may be juveniles.)
4 and 5 are the bird we saw in Hanoi - we saw only this one individual White-eye in our eight-day trip to Luang Prabang (almost no birds at all, except farmed Swifts - a guide one day said that the locals will have eaten them all) and Hanoi and Cuc Phuong. Note that the underparts are grey - although there is a slight buff wash if you look carefully. In the revision after the split, this should be Swinhoe's I think, but I can't see the yellow brow that is sometimes mentioned for Swinhoe's.
6 and 7 are of a bird from Ishigaki Island in the south of Okinawa. This should be a subspecies that the Japanese books call 'Ryukyu [i.e. Okinawa] White-eye'. Ishigaki City is 280km from Taipei, Taiwan, but 1000km from Kagoshima, the nearest city on the four main Japanese Islands, so maybe this is also Swinhoe's now (again no yellow brow). This also has on close inspection a slight buff wash like the bird from Hanoi.
BUT photo 8 is from my local area, basically the same spot as photos 1, 2 and 3, and therefore should be the same ssp. And to me, it looks as grey as 4, 5, 6 and 7.
And just for completeness, photo 9 is Chestnut-flanked White-eye ('Korean White-eye' in Japanese) from Hegura Island a well-known rarity hotspot on migration. And definitely a separate species.
(There is presumably seasonal variation as a result of moult and wear and tear. All of my photos use the same naming system, so the number at the beginning is YYMMDDxxx; therefore you can work out when the photos were taken.)
To repeat, Deanman, your bird definitely seems to have buff flanks, and therefore I think should be japonica, unless simplex and japonica are not as visually different as some suggest. But if others could comment, that would be great.
Anyway since BF is a bit pandemic-quiet, here are a few photos (all by me).
1, 2 and 3 are the buff breasted Japanese White-eyes at their buffiest. (The pair in 3 may be juveniles.)
4 and 5 are the bird we saw in Hanoi - we saw only this one individual White-eye in our eight-day trip to Luang Prabang (almost no birds at all, except farmed Swifts - a guide one day said that the locals will have eaten them all) and Hanoi and Cuc Phuong. Note that the underparts are grey - although there is a slight buff wash if you look carefully. In the revision after the split, this should be Swinhoe's I think, but I can't see the yellow brow that is sometimes mentioned for Swinhoe's.
6 and 7 are of a bird from Ishigaki Island in the south of Okinawa. This should be a subspecies that the Japanese books call 'Ryukyu [i.e. Okinawa] White-eye'. Ishigaki City is 280km from Taipei, Taiwan, but 1000km from Kagoshima, the nearest city on the four main Japanese Islands, so maybe this is also Swinhoe's now (again no yellow brow). This also has on close inspection a slight buff wash like the bird from Hanoi.
BUT photo 8 is from my local area, basically the same spot as photos 1, 2 and 3, and therefore should be the same ssp. And to me, it looks as grey as 4, 5, 6 and 7.
And just for completeness, photo 9 is Chestnut-flanked White-eye ('Korean White-eye' in Japanese) from Hegura Island a well-known rarity hotspot on migration. And definitely a separate species.
(There is presumably seasonal variation as a result of moult and wear and tear. All of my photos use the same naming system, so the number at the beginning is YYMMDDxxx; therefore you can work out when the photos were taken.)
To repeat, Deanman, your bird definitely seems to have buff flanks, and therefore I think should be japonica, unless simplex and japonica are not as visually different as some suggest. But if others could comment, that would be great.