Divers/Loons in winter plumage in Norfolk (1 Viewer)

[Tony Knight]

Sorry, hopeless at identifying and can't match to Collins or google. Presumably GN divers are the most common this time of year ? First was on the creek/inlet from the beach at Titchwell, the second at Blakeney/Morston harbour, both on saturday.

Thanks
Tony

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Tony,
both are Red-throated Divers. The right uptilted bill-shape is more clearly visible in the left bird imo, but alos present in the right bird.
Such a smeared neck pattern is very rare at best in juvenile Black-troated Divers, most have dark and white ones with a sharp division line.
Great Northern Diver has a much thicker, heavier bill.

 

[Tony Knight]

Thanks Alexander. I did think the bill was a good fit for RND though Collins seems to suggest they should have very white necks in winter - perhaps juveniles then ?

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello again,
yes, both are 1cy birds. The quite uniform darkish/smeared head and neck with the chin area the slight contrasting pale are (more clearly=ID friendly there in the left bird) is a good feature of juvenile birds of this species, also against other Divers.
Please compare the whitish spots on the upperparts of your birds with this adult bird https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/red...-winterkleed-zwemmend-nederland-129029467.jpg.
In german this species is called Sterntaucher= Star Diver. You see why?

 

[Steve Lister]

Red-throated is the commonest diver on the Norfolk coast.
Bill shape is always a good pointer for identifying divers. The regular three species are quite different.

 

[Southern Frogmouth]

Hi Tony,

To answer your query about Great Northern Diver being the commonest at this time of year, the short answer to that is no - certainly in Norfolk and round a lot of the British coastline. Red-throated Diver it typically the commonest, then Great Northern Diver and Black-throated Diver. Inland I wouldn't be surprised if GND is the commonest, but don't have stats to corroborate that. However, there will be local variations, for instance I have seen far more GNDs in west Cornwall when on holiday down there than I have either of the other two commoner species, but the locals might have different experiences. Whereas places like Pett Level and the Aberdeenshire coast I have seen 100+ RTD in a day and very few GNDs. I think that people reporting birds to bird news services are more likely to report GND and BTD because they are less numerous than RTD and since GND is commoner than BTD it might seem to be the commonest Diver species.

Steve is right bill-shape is a good pointer, particularly when combined with head shape and size compared to the neck. Although obviously distant birds can be quite deceptive. White-billed Diver is a rare bird, in the past twenty years our understanding of its status has changed from that of a true rarity, assessed by BBRC, to a scarce passage migrant/overwintering bird. Although they are by no means common and are still rarely seen south of Scotland. WBD are a possibility but a remote one for the most part.

Cheers

Roy

 

[dantheman]

Hi Tony,

To answer your query about Great Northern Diver being the commonest at this time of year, the short answer to that is no - certainly in Norfolk and round a lot of the British coastline. Red-throated Diver it typically the commonest, then Great Northern Diver and Black-throated Diver. Inland I wouldn't be surprised if GND is the commonest, but don't have stats to corroborate that. However, there will be local variations, for instance I have seen far more GNDs in west Cornwall when on holiday down there than I have either of the other two commoner species, but the locals might have different experiences. Whereas places like Pett Level and the Aberdeenshire coast I have seen 100+ RTD in a day and very few GNDs. I think that people reporting birds to bird news services are more likely to report GND and BTD because they are less numerous than RTD and since GND is commoner than BTD it might seem to be the commonest Diver species.

Steve is right bill-shape is a good pointer, particularly when combined with head shape and size compared to the neck. Although obviously distant birds can be quite deceptive. White-billed Diver is a rare bird, in the past twenty years our understanding of its status has changed from that of a true rarity, assessed by BBRC, to a scarce passage migrant/overwintering bird. Although they are by no means common and are still rarely seen south of Scotland. WBD are a possibility but a remote one for the most part.

Cheers

Roy

Indeed Red-throated much the rarest in Cornwall generally (far east the exception), although recent year or two have seen higher numbers of RT than previously.

Do eg Birdguides have the 3 diver species at the same status level? - eg Black-throated is designated more of a notable/scarcity nationally, GN may also be in a different category to RT in addition to variable reporting as you mention?

 

[dantheman]

Additional to Alexander's excellent analysis, in Red-throated, such as these the neck seems to come straight out of the water, whereas the other two main species show more of a bulge at the waterline.

 

[Southern Frogmouth]

Indeed Red-throated much the rarest in Cornwall generally (far east the exception), although recent year or two have seen higher numbers of RT than previously.

Do eg Birdguides have the 3 diver species at the same status level? - eg Black-throated is designated more of a notable/scarcity nationally, GN may also be in a different category to RT in addition to variable reporting as you mention?

I don't know about Birdguides, but I checked RBA and they appear to be given the same status there, i.e. uncommon. My local area being inland people here would report any Diver However, I suspect at the south-east coast people would be less likely to make an effort to report RTD and more likely to report GND and BTD unless all three are unusual at the locality in question.

Cheers

Roy

 

[Earnest lad]

I concur that the excellent photo's are of Red-throated diver

 

[Andy Lakin]

Am I right in thinking that red throated is the least likely to occur in proper inland locations? It surpruses me that at least on the east coast with such big numbers of RTD passing more aren't found inland.

 

[dantheman]

Am I right in thinking that red throated is the least likely to occur in proper inland locations? It surprises me that at least on the east coast with such big numbers of RTD passing more aren't found inland.

To start the ball rolling, I've seen (twitched) one each of Great Northern and Black-throated at proper inland locations ;-) No Red-throats

(And overflying inland GND in Norfolk and BT from the garden (5 miles inland Cornwall)


Mustn't forget Pacific Divers inland too lol