AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

[Andy Adcock]

For goodness sake, nobody tell these self-appointed tightasses what black coloured birds are called in Spanish.

I have a butterfly book where a black species is actually called 'The N.....'. Historically, it was pretty common in the UK for black pets to be called the same.

There was someone in the garden feeder section talking about 'Nyjer' seeds, I despair for some and I'm not joking.

I'm waiting for them to try and rename the country of the same name.

 

[Lerxst]

I have a butterfly book where a black species is actually called 'The N.....'. Historically, it was pretty common in the UK for black pets to be called the same.

There was someone in the garden feeder section talking about 'Nyjer' seeds, I despair for some and I'm not joking.

I'm waiting for them to try and rename the country of the same name.

Not sure about your side of the pond, but over here you can get in deep doodoo by using a certain synonym for miserly, which has no etymological connection to another word that it happens to share a bunch of letters with.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Not sure about your side of the pond, but over here you can get in deep doodoo by using a certain synonym for miserly, which has no etymological connection to another word that it happens to share a bunch of letters with.

Yep, I think I know the word.

 

[jurek]

I already heard a young American seriously telling that black Africans should rename their country and river N*ger, because it is inacceptable. He completely did not grasp that they were black people themselves, and they named their river and home region centuries ago.

Another young American was similarly shocked about the animal cougar, because it was apparently also a slur word. Which points something - when one world is cancelled as offensive, people immediately start using another, so there are always new offensive words and new reasons to change.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I already heard a young American seriously telling that black Africans should rename their country and river N*ger, because it is inacceptable.

Another young American was similarly shocked about the animal cougar, because it was apparently also a slur word. Which points something - when one world is cancelled as offensive, the language starts using another, so there are always new offensive words and new reasons to change.

In the US, afaik a 'Cougar' is an attractive Lady of a certain age?

 

[raymie]

In the US, afaik a 'Cougar' is an attractive Lady of a certain age?

A very derogatory one, but yes.

 

[Andy Adcock]

A very derogatory one, but yes.

Didn't realise that bit.

 

[jurek]

I think it functions depending from the community as either appreciative or insulting. Which according to that young American meant that people in the rest of the world cannot use it for the wild cat.

 

[Lerxst]

An oldie but a goodie from 2017:

Students [at Amherst College] are seeking to have Lynch Memorial Hall renamed because of the word “lynch” in its name—in this case they deem the word itself is so historically associated with vicious racism it must be changed.

The renaming bid has nothing to do with the gentleman who the building is named after, and who is guilty of no heinous cultural crime—indeed, his reputation emanates quite the opposite.

Clyde A. Lynch, the school’s former president, oversaw the school through the Great Depression and World War II.

Lynch not only led Lebanon Valley College through times of war and national poverty, he was active in helping refugees settle in the U.S. following World War II, said Marty Parkes, the executive director of marketing and communications at Lebanon Valley College.

... from The Dumbest College Renaming Debate Yet

 

[Mysticete]

I think it functions depending from the community as either appreciative or insulting. Which according to that young American meant that people in the rest of the world cannot use it for the wild cat.

I've never heard this stated seriously by anyone. Clearly no one is trying to get rid of the term "tit" and "boobie", which of course have their own juvenile interpretations.

 

[jurek]

I've never heard this stated seriously by anyone. Clearly no one is trying to get rid of the term "tit" and "boobie", which of course have their own juvenile interpretations.

Maybe you are a bit older but it is young people who matter?

 

[Strontium Dog]

I'm actually surprised they haven't started on birds with "Oriental" in the name, a quick check shows at least 16 species.

A perfectly innocuous term the world over, but in the USA considered offensive.

 

[01101001]

I think you mean Greyish-underwing Crested Lark vs Brown-underwing Crested Lark. Or is it Stubbier-billed Crested Lark vs Longer-billed Crested Lark ... no that can't be right, Maghreb (Crested) Lark has a still longer bill. What about Spikey-crested Lark vs Fan-crested Lark?

How about Steppe Lark (though I don't see this particular one being prioritised for name change)?

EDIT: I'm also sympathetic to taking up similar sounding names ('Stellar' and the likes): I'd prefer for Blackburnian Warbler to stay, but what about Sideburnian Warbler, which captures its distinctive ID feature and one that is valid for both sexes.

What about the similarly uninformative Magnolia Warbler, Red-bellied Woodpecker and the like?

Monty('s) Harrier after another Monty?

Much as I love beautiful and poetic words, I believe that bird names are utilities, so should change with changing language. If birders call Meadow Pipit a Mipit, the bird books should follow, like with countless words over centuries.

Something at least to consider in the face of blanket changes about to occur (although Jurek seems to have--up to a point--backtracked from his previously held opinion).

Stuttering Reed Warbler for Blyth's Reed Warbler based on its song, even if I've got used to the latter name (the vast majority of current names are visual, not auditory, anyway). Names such as Blithe Reed Warbler or Bliss Reed Warbler (Blith'ry Warbler?) were tempting but unrelated to the bird. Marsh Warbler could maybe become Meadow Warbler for the sake of accuracy.

'Chatty' instead of 'Cetti's' on account of its cheerful song and being relatively talkative as opposed to conspicuous; also honouring the correct pronunciation of the current name.

And, generally, the greater inclusion of local/regional/indigenous names: think 'korhaan' vs 'bustard', for example, or Neddicky vs Piping Cisticola plus some better names for

In South America, you get striated, streaked, striolated, lined, striped etc. to describe similar species which is not helpful at all.

'Sideburnian' and 'Chatty' are my favourite of the lot.

 

[thyoloalethe]

Jimmy Kimmel has now jumped in on this story!

Scroll ahead to 9:40

 

[gusasp]

For goodness sake, nobody tell these self-appointed tightasses what black coloured birds are called in Spanish.

Come on guys, this is not X/Twitter, could we please stop calling people we disagree with names? We're better than that.

 

[Ries]

I have a butterfly book where a black species is actually called 'The N.....'. Historically, it was pretty common in the UK for black pets to be called the same.

In Dutch a grasshopper was called, literally translated, "little n....r" ("n.g.rtje"), but was a decade or two ago changed to "little black alarm clock" ("zwart wekkertje" to point towards its comparable sibling specie "little alarm clock" ("wekkertje"). Common sense, I think.

This eponym stuff....feels like namegivers, discoverer of species, are erased, gives away some of the charm, makes humanity more a robotic, uniform mass without some glamour for those who took the effort of discovering new species, of people helping mankind scientifically evolve.

For the bird's name's sake, I don't care much. Easier to remember having it named after a id'able characteristic than someone long deceased's family name.

 

[Surreybirder]

I rather like Mrs Gould's sunbird as a name. Many-coloured sunbird or similar takes away an evocative historical reference. It may be a philosophical point but I think that history does matter. But I'm not sure that historical injustices are restored by renaming birds. Having said that, some names were/are down-right offensive. I have an old copy of Bannerman's The Birds of West and Equatorial Africa in which some of the weavers have names that would be unacceptable today. (The names were in use when I was there many years ago.) I am in favour of renaming birds which use terms that are offensive to many people.
I think that cougar comes in a different category. Surely no one thinks of themselves as a cougar?
By the way, I seriously doubt that the indigenous people chose the name Nigeria. It was an artificial colonial construct. The local people are Yorubas, Igbos, Hausas and many other ethnic groups - it was the British who told them that they were Nigerians.

 

[Farnboro John]

In the US, afaik a 'Cougar' is an attractive Lady of a certain age?

The implication is that they are not merely attractive but predatory. The understanding is however that the prey are in general willing victims.... which may mean jealousy among the less blessed is the reason for the epithet. I have undertaken insufficient research to determine with certainty.

John

 

[jts1882]

"Your superiors know better" Turns out I was right!
1. The members of the North American Classification Committee (aka “Checklist Committee”) and its South American counterpart were unanimous in their interest in taking each potentially offensive name into account on a case-by-case basis, based on diligent research and incorporating comments from professional historians. The point is that we all recognized that some names are potentially offensive based on evidence and facts. (Although I confess we overlooked Red-necked Grebe — thanks Michael C.). Both classification committees were opposed to a blanket purge. So, those who are angry with the blanket purge shouldn’t blame the “Check-list” committees.

2. There is no legal reason why anyone, including LOS or any state organization, much less book authors and so on, must follow AOS English names. That is your decision. If it’s in your by-laws, those can be changed. Or one can cite the AOS but cite just the current online version by specifying the 2023 version, which you can download right now before The Great Purge begins. Also, in production is a new global list by the IOC as well as a revised global list from the “Howard-Moore” classification group, and both would be acceptable as citations for English names.


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Dr. J. V. Remsen
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Four word response to Purge: Never mind the Bullock's

Remsen has resigned from the AOS and the classification committee.

I got the official announcement about 8 this morning and resigned from the AOS and the Classification Committee a few seconds later.

Re: The Great Purge Begins officially today

groups.io

 

[pbjosh]

I rather like Mrs Gould's sunbird as a name. Many-coloured sunbird or similar takes away an evocative historical reference. It may be a philosophical point but I think that history does matter. But I'm not sure that historical injustices are restored by renaming birds. Having said that, some names were/are down-right offensive. I have an old copy of Bannerman's The Birds of West and Equatorial Africa in which some of the weavers have names that would be unacceptable today. (The names were in use when I was there many years ago.) I am in favour of renaming birds which use terms that are offensive to many people.
I think that cougar comes in a different category. Surely no one thinks of themselves as a cougar?
By the way, I seriously doubt that the indigenous people chose the name Nigeria. It was an artificial colonial construct. The local people are Yorubas, Igbos, Hausas and many other ethnic groups - it was the British who told them that they were Nigerians.

While I've vacillated over all the name changing I remain somewhere in the middle. I generally dislike honorific names as they don't tell you squat about the bird, where it lives, how to ID it, etc. But changing so many established names, as others argue - will it really help so much? Especially names that exist in so much published literature? Pffft whatever. I'm more upset over current issues in Gaza, rampant environmental destruction, etc, than these name changes which are kind of a tempest in a teacup when one takes a step back.

However on a few of these names, I do really think the eponyms and a few other names just make for catchy, evocative names and something will be lost if they are changed. Maybe it's a bit of old school romanticism despite the inappropriateness at times (ie, names like Ceylon, Formosa, Constantinople are a bit evocative to many people, right or wrong). I don't really care about Wilson's or Swainson's Warbler, Wilson's Phalarope, etc, other than the loss of continuity. Those names are not particularly "cool" or interesting. I see why people like Steller's Jay/Sea-Eagle/Eider. Kind of a catchy name for some cool birds for sure. Personally, I was disappointed when Rosita's Bunting was renamed. I'm not sure why Satanic Nightjar was changed, and I hope that Mrs Gould's Sunbird, Lady Amhearst's Pheasant, Prince Ruspoli's Turaco, and a few other such oddball names are retained in the long run, should the name changing extend to the old world.