• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

At long last, AOU 2010 pending proposals A (1 Viewer)

Summary of taxonomic changes

Splits:
Kentish Plover and Snowy Plover
Mountain Chickadee into the Gambel's (Great Basin/Rocky Mountain) and Bailey's (Sierra Nevada/Pacific coastal)
Two, three, or four way split of Yellow-rumped Warbler
Split of Sick's Swift (already supported by SACC) as a distinct species from Ashy-tailed
Split of Common Gallinule and Common Moorhen (SACC already has accepted)

Common name changes:
Bare-eyed Thrush to Spectacled Thrush (SACC accepted)
Winter wren name change (AGAIN....arggghh)

Higher taxonomic level changes:
Recognition of the family Tityridae
Recognition of the family Sapayoidae (which involves a four way family split of the Broadbills)
Transfer Chlorospingus to Thraupidae
 
Most of those splits have been adopted by IOC, so they would not give me new species (except for the chickadee split).

My predictions on what happens:

Snowy Plover, Gallinule, and at least a 2 way Yellow-rump split (maybe 3 way with Goldman's)

No clue on chickadee splits...could go either way.

Bare-eyed Thrush name change probable, I don't think AOU will want to revisit the Winter Wren name change

Yes on Tityridae (gets rid of the hated incertae sedis), yes on Chlorospingus (well supported), no on Sapayoidae (no new info plus largely an issue of semantics).
 
Thanks M.

Winter wren name change (AGAIN....arggghh)

The proposal is from Steve N. G. Howell to name them Western Winter Wren and Eastern Winter Wren (he doesn't actually state the proposed names so I'm not sure of capitalization but he says no hyphens). I like it.

Best,
Jim
 
AOU traditionally has not liked to come back to reassess differences without new data, and I don't see anything in Steve Howell's argument that is new.

I think the only persuasive thing in this proposal is the fact that Winter Wren was left the same. Still, I didn't notice that the Cackling Goose and Canada Goose situation caused the fall of western civilization.

Also, If your going to add a describer, Western is perhaps not the best. There are parts of the west where Eastern and Western are equally as likely as vagrants. Pacific-Slope or Pacific Winter Wren really are more accurate in regards the range
 
AOU traditionally has not liked to come back to reassess differences without new data, and I don't see anything in Steve Howell's argument that is new.

Of course I assume it's unlikely to pass. But perhaps Steve is right that it's not to late to undo what was a bad decision to begin with. I don't personally care whether it's Pacific Winter Wren or Western Winter Wren, but following the model of Western Wood-pewee and Eastern Wood-pewee makes sense and solves all the problems of using an old name to refer to a new taxon.

Best,
Jim
 
Last edited:
Jim, I disagree. Any re-address of these names should change the eastern species to Boreal Wren, not tamper with the name of the western part. Only in that way will it be clear when the old and when the new taxonomy is used.

Niels
 
I think that in this thread so far we have had three different people (me included) who each have three different ideas for what the names are/should be. Obviously this says something about this issue.
 
Jim, I disagree. Any re-address of these names should change the eastern species to Boreal Wren, not tamper with the name of the western part. Only in that way will it be clear when the old and when the new taxonomy is used.

Niels

Not sure I follow you Niels and am not sure what you are disagreeing with. The main thing is to get a new name for the (eastern) winter wren--other than simply the name of the old taxon--Winter Wren. That is what everyone is complaining about, and on that I think we agree.

Moreover, there is currently, and never has been, a species called "Eastern Winter Wren" or "Western Winter Wren", so using those as the name of a species would make clear that you are using the new taxonomy. (I suppose your objection is that those were common names for the old subspecies? Perhaps, but common names for most subspecies are little used (except by Sibley, but his guide is an exception), so I think the risk of confusion is minimal.)

Best,
Jim
 
I think that in this thread so far we have had three different people (me included) who each have three different ideas for what the names are/should be. Obviously this says something about this issue.

But I have yet to see a proposed change that I don't consider an improvement over the status quo!

Best,
Jim
 
That's the thing...I don't really see the need for this proposal. I am fine with Winter Wren and Pacific Wren. Perhaps this argument would have been stronger had had Canada Goose been given a modifier, but it wasn't, and I think that taxa has a greater likelihood of causing problems than the current winter wren situation.
 
Jim, one reason is that most people will not use the modifiers (E or W) and that therefore it becomes unclear if the new or old is followed. In addition, I like the two part names better than the three part ones, and even worse (I know I am unusual here) three part without hyphens.

Additionally, I thought there were eastern form breeding west of the easternmost western form (I don't have time right now to check this up), and therefore it is not really logical to distinguish in that way for me.

But, I know that this discussion is likely to not go much further than the previous iterations, and am sorry I was involved in starting again ;)

Niels
 
If you want an alternative topic to discuss, I am sure some birders that have been birding longer than I have will appreciate getting Common Gallinule back
 
Subspecies

Some of the authors seem keen to retain marginally-differentiated subspecies.

The Snowy Plover split recognises Gulf coast tenuirostris - synomynised with nivosus by H&M3, HBW, BNA Online, Zoonomen and Clements.

The Mountain Chickadee split also recognises several sspp synonymised by H&M3, HBW, BNA Online and Zoonomen.

Richard
 
Last edited:
Hi Richard,
I saw that too. On the other hand, for the plover look at the difference in ground color between a gulf coast bird from Florida and a bird from California; what I don't know is if there is an intermediate form in e.g., Texas.

Niels

PS: I have seen a bird in Puerto Rico that looked even whiter than the Florida bird
 
At long last...
NACC is to be applauded for publishing proposals for taxonomic changes (eg, in marked contrast to BOURC, which still operates entirely behind closed doors, revealing only final decisions, with no visibility of the commenting and voting processes). But NACC procedures still compare unfavourably with those of SACC, which manages to post individual proposals and comments as and when received. The batch posted by NACC yesterday includes proposals dating back as long ago as Dec 2009 - I wonder why it's considered necessary to delay for up to a year before publication?

Richard
 
Last edited:
If you want an alternative topic to discuss, I am sure some birders that have been birding longer than I have will appreciate getting Common Gallinule back

Why? Old World Ssp, Old World Name :t: Apart from the slight chauvnism it's not the commonest "gallinule", even in the Americas, so why call it Common ( unless you're thinking of changing to Common Gull? )

Chris
 
Like last year, I'll be keeping an eye on this forum regarding posts about the AOU-North American Classification Committee proposals. I value the input from posters on this forum and share these with other members. I will let you know if we can use opinions on specific topics, especially English names (like the Winter Wren from the 2009 proposals, which we get to visit again).

The AOU-NAAC still operates in addressing proposals in batches, instead of one at a time. We then prepare publication of our decisions on an annual basis. As a result, it may take awhile (one year max.) to get to the proposal (and for you to see it on our website). It' s been done that way for decades. The much more recent SACC was set up different, with no annual publications and completely conducted with web-based proposals.

Andy Kratter
member, AOU North American Classification Committee
 
Warning! This thread is more than 13 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top