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Ross's Geese Plastic or the real deal ? (1 Viewer)

M

mohawk71

British birder based in SE Scotland
I thought I'd start this discussion off because its been bothering me for a while .
Recently within the Pink Foot flocks of the east coast of Scotland there have been two Ross's geese .#

First reported within the geese flocks of the Loch of Strathbeg (Aberdeenshire) about 4 weeks ago , then within the flocks at Loch Leven (Fife) and now they seem to have settled within the geese flocks at Aberlady Bay (Lothian) .
Talking to a mate in Aberdeenshire he's sat on the fence on whether they are true wild birds .
He also points out that no-one was taking any notice of Snow Geese until a few ringed specimens turned up and now all Snow Geese are treated as real, as was the case for Lesser Canada Geese, until again one turned up ringed.

I would appreciate peoples views cos i'm just confused.

Is it actually possible that Two Ross's would turn up at once?

Rik
 
There are no rules about rarities having to turn up alone. Some examples: seven Radde's Warblers dropping out of the fog onto St Mary's IOS overnight (face it, they must have been travelling together); several instances of American Wigeon in twos, threes or even more; two Swainson's Thrushes together at Bar Point; eight Glossy Ibises together touring Southern England. An assortment of species and points of origin.

Appearing from nowhere with Pinks makes them a good bet unless someone can point to a specific captive loss somewhere. The frankly explosive increase in the population across the pond also must mean a relatively low average age in the population and a concomitant increase in the likelihood of vagrancy.

John
 
I don't know about these birds, but there's no reason why wild Ross's Geese can't turn up here. They have a very similar breeding and wintering range to many of the smaller Canada Geese that turn up, and which are usually assumed to be wild. Those Canadas often turn up in groups - I've seen three together in a field in Islay.
 
If they are coming in with Icelandic Pink-feet then they're eluding us. No records of Ross's Goose here at all.


E
 
We're spread pretty thinly, John. Much of the country is never watched, but then 10% of it is under ice so that gives us a bit less ground to cover. Geese are pretty well watched and counted though. Some of the vague reports of Snow Geese could feasibly relate to Ross's Geese I suppose, but no pics, descriptions or corpses yet!

E
 
According to the Birdwatch ,Birds of Britain check list by Dominic Mitchell and Keith Vinicombe.They state that the Ross's Goose numbers in recent years have greatly increased to close to one million now.It was once considered endangered.Also they state its winter range has extended eastwards to the eastern seaboard of the USA,where it is now regular ,and the increased transatlantic vagrancy might be expected.So not all of the Ross's Geese records in the UK may not be escaped birds .
 
Birdspotter said:
Not sure about this but arent Pink-feet now breeding on Greenland where they could pick up the likes of Ross's and Snow Geese?
Click to expand...

Yes, Pink-feet breed on the east coast of Greenland but do not cross the icecap as far as I know. Ross's Geese still breed a long way west of Greenland, so the two species should normally never meet. But there again I've seen a Varied Thrush singing from a fence post in spring in eastern Iceland so nothing really surprises me when it comes to vagrancy!

E
 
Last night on the pager: accompanying Pinkfeet in Eastern Scotland, eighteen Barnacle Geese, four Greenland Whitefronts (no age given) and two adult Ross's Geese.

The escapes are:

1. All of them except the Pinkfeet
2. All of them including the Pinkfeet
3. The Barnies
4. The Greenland Whitefronts
5. The Ross's Geese
6. Perm any two (can't be bothered writing all of the options)
7. None of the above.

Answers on a postcard: don't work your brains too hard....

John
 
The Dutch rarities commitee accept Ross's Geese, but what helped make their minds up, I heard it was due to a ringed bird turning up in Holland is this true?
 
Edward - according to Valerie Thom's Birds of Scotland there was a pair of Ross's geese (ringed and if I remember correctly, known to be escaped) wintering regularly in central Scotland in the 1960s and apparently commuted to Iceland with greylags - a nesting attempt in Iceland by these birds was flooded out in 1963!

This probably doesn't help those wanting to tick Ross's over here mind - but shows what escapes can be capable of.

I was in Delaware bay a few winters ago and managed to find some Ross's geese wintering amongst the snows. Both species were increasing in the area, however there were apparently estimated to be 500,000-750,000 snows and maybe 100! Ross's - although increasing they were quite scarce still on the east coast of the USA (It may have changed now)

Also both snow and Canada are now breeding in west Greenland and are almost certainly affecting Greenland white-front breeding success - both snow and various Canadas are still more likely to be wild than a Ross's, given that they are mixing with Greenland geese that come to the UK regularly.

Cheers,
Andrew
 
So now that two Ross's Geese threads are now running in these forums would anyone like to stick their necks out and say YES they're wild and tickable or as i still think its more likely that they're escaped birds and just doing the goosey flock wintering thing?
 
mohawk71 said:
So now that two Ross's Geese threads are now running in these forums would anyone like to stick their necks out and say YES they're wild and tickable or as i still think its more likely that they're escaped birds and just doing the goosey flock wintering thing?
Click to expand...
Its impossible to say whether they are wild birds or not,personally i think one or two of them may be wild geese.
 
AStevenson said:
Edward - according to Valerie Thom's Birds of Scotland there was a pair of Ross's geese (ringed and if I remember correctly, known to be escaped) wintering regularly in central Scotland in the 1960s and apparently commuted to Iceland with greylags - a nesting attempt in Iceland by these birds was flooded out in 1963!
Click to expand...
Hi Andrew

Just dug out a copy of the Icelandic Journal of Natural Sciences from 1984 in which this breeding record was discussed. It's thought that the birds in question were both Snow x Ross's Goose hybrids and that for one reason or another they probably weren't the ringed birds from Scotland.

E
 
Thanks very much Andrew and thanks very much Edward , I've found yours and everyones comments and the information its created fantastic ;-)

rik
 
Birdspotter said:
The Dutch rarities commitee accept Ross's Geese, but what helped make their minds up, I heard it was due to a ringed bird turning up in Holland is this true?
Click to expand...
There has only been a ringed Snow Goose in the Netherlands (in a rather large flock). However, many of the Snow Geese seen in the Netherlands are obviously escapes, or belong to free-flying populations (from e.g. Germany, Norway).
There is no evidence that any of the Ross's Geese seen in the Netherlands are truly wild. The reasons why Ross's is treated as a true vagrant have been published in Dutch Birding (one of them being its increase in numbers). However, it is also quite common in captivity...

A few years back, one “long-staying” female bird laid an egg in a Barnacle Goose colony (which must have been founded at least partly by injured wild birds) in the southwest of the Netherlands. In this area, it's not too hard to find escaped geese (e.g. Emperor, Cackling (minima)) which are obviously attracted by the wild geese...

Many Dutch birders treat the vagrant white geese as a bit of a joke, although twitching them is a way to get through winter (and if you've seen enough, one might just be the real deal).
 
Whilst its quite plausible that wild birds do make it across, it's also plausible that that feral birds get mixed up with wild flocks. I think the basic problem is that while it's quite likely that they are wild, you cannot say they are with certainty. The normal course of action therefore would be to err on the side of caution and assume they are escapes.
 
Ilya Maclean said:
Whilst its quite plausible that wild birds do make it across, it's also plausible that that feral birds get mixed up with wild flocks. I think the basic problem is that while it's quite likely that they are wild, you cannot say they are with certainty. The normal course of action therefore would be to err on the side of caution and assume they are escapes.
Click to expand...

Would you say the same about the various small Canadas (I guess what we call 'Lesser Canada Goose' now), which have a rather similar range to Ross's Goose? I agree that you can't be sure, but then can you be sure about any wildfowl?
 
I'd basically say yes, we can't be sure about small Canadas either and I do realise that there's a discrepancy there in BOU cats, but I guess it boils down to relative liklihoods, something which I guess the relavant bodies do consider when changing the catagories. I’d certainly say the probability that at least some Ross’s Geese are wild is more than 50%. Wouldn’t surprise me that much if the BOU followed the Dutch soon, but they do tend to be cautious about these things.

I guess what it really needs is one to be seen with a Nearctic ring.
 
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