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Thekla & Crested Larks (1 Viewer)

maudoc

mau the doc
Italy
Sorry for boring but for me it's not so easy to give a name to each lark...

Where and when? Extremadura, Spain, 4th-8th May


THANKS IN ADVANCE



I think it's not a problem to say that these birds are CRESTED Larks [1] [21] [2]

OK?

[1] first two pictures on the left
[21] 3rd & 4th pics
[2] is the 5th
 

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And this I think is a THEKLA Lark [10]

ok?
 

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I think are CRESTED Larks also [3] [5] [9]

[3] the left one pic
[5] 2nd & 3rd pics
[9] the 2 pics on the right
 

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perched on a bush: only for Thekla???? I think these are CRESTED Larks too...

[4] left
[6] right
 

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Is this an other CRESTED? Is it not an adult?

[11]
 

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CRESTED Larks again?

[0] left
[8] right
 

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These birds give me a headache. After a week in Extremadura I finally got to grips with them!!

A side by side comparison between the two HERE
 
I think are CRESTED Larks also [3] [5] [9]

[3] the left one pic
[5] 2nd & 3rd pics
[9] the 2 pics on the right

Hi Maudoc. It would be rash of me to try and pronounce with authority on the identification of these birds. I've been living and birding in northeast Spain for more than 20 years now, and this particular pair of species still gives me problems at times. There are many factors involved in plumage features, not least of all wear, moult, age of birds, etc. The "classic" Thekla bill is shorter, stubbier and more "traingular" than the Crested Lark bill, which is generally slimmer and more drawn out. This is perhaps the best morphological feature on perched birds, but does vary with individuals and with personal assessment. I never find crest shape or length of much use, but perhaps I should pay more attention.

IN my part of Spain Thekla Larks are generally greyer and Crested Larks browner, but again there are many in-betweens. Theklas usually have more contrasting face markings and streaking, especially the "spectacles". Often the best indication is habitat: Crested like almost uniform agricultural type country, more open and flat, while Thekla occupies more undulating or broken terrain with bushes, rocky outcrops etc.

Theklas also have the habit of perching on bushes, which Cresteds don't tend to do as readily.

Don't know if that is much help, but one does hope so.

Steve
 
The "classic" Thekla bill is shorter, stubbier and more "traingular" than the Crested Lark bill, which is generally slimmer and more drawn out. This is perhaps the best morphological feature on perched birds, but does vary with individuals and with personal assessment. I never find crest shape or length of much use, but perhaps I should pay more attention.

IN my part of Spain Thekla Larks are generally greyer and Crested Larks browner, but again there are many in-betweens. Theklas usually have more contrasting face markings and streaking, especially the "spectacles". Often the best indication is habitat: Crested like almost uniform agricultural type country, more open and flat, while Thekla occupies more undulating or broken terrain with bushes, rocky outcrops etc.

Theklas also have the habit of perching on bushes, which Cresteds don't tend to do as readily.

I apologize B :)

I have read a few of thread in this forum about the ID diagnosis and you have reassumed so well in your words, thank you...
I understand now that it was not so granted that I have tried to "read" these pictures (of several birders with me in the filed in these days) thinking at these ID features... but I am not so sure if I am a "good reader" ;)

Some bill is easy, some other (for me) is very difficult.
Or the bill for me is for Crested but the plumage is for Thekla...


So my question is....

Considering that Thekla Lark has shorter bill, not so pointed, rounded lesser mandible...
Considering Thekla is also grayer and more streaked/marked in plumage...

...only #10 is a Thekla Lark and all the other birds are Crested?
or is it impossible to be sure for some pic?
Most doubts for #11 #7 #0


Thank you always

Best birding
 
agree with Jane

I think they're all Crested

I'd be reluctant to claim Thekla if I'd seen all these birds in the same area/habitat, as I don't see the two species together when I go to Spain (annually), but then a birder who sees these birds on a very regular basis may disagree
 
To me the photos [5] & [0] are Thekla and I'm quite certain that [8] is too.

[0] - on breast streaking alone
[5] - on bill and breast streaking
[8] - general colouring, subtly more compact shape - looks like its just about to turn around to clinch ID with the bill and calls. Not at all convincing I know, but if looks and feels right.

Crested and Thekla are both locally very common birds in southern Portugal and with time one gets more used to them - they can be very tricky but on good views (and hearing them) not many escape the net. After nearly 30 years living near them I can now say that I'm usually "pretty confident" about their ID - if not I call them Creklas. When its absolutely necessary to ID them (survey work, or with a client) extra effort bears fruit.

The two species can sometimes be found in close proximity, usually where habitats merge.
 
The more I look at some Crested/Thekla Larks the more I get confused and wonder whether hybrids are less uncommon than often supposed. [0] certainly looks right for Thekla, but without a clinching view of the bill shape - I follow Steve here - I wouldn't like to be dogmatic. Whilst there's a hint of Thekla in one of the photos of [5], the other looks distinctly Crested like. To me [8] is a Crested too - that bill looks too long and thin. Of course, only a fool or a brave man disagrees with Jane Turner and I'm a convinced coward. So when I say I find the bill shape of [10] more Thekla-like than Crested, you know what conclusion to draw. It's birds lke this that give me a headache. The bill doesn't look particularly 'stubby' but that lower mandible looks darn convex. The plumage does look rather too warm so I wonder if it was taken near to dusk (or dawn),
 
John, I agree with you [10] looks just right for Thekla. I must also mention (as I didn't take too much time to read the other posts ) that I agree Steve's comments (moult etc) are spot on.

However, my comments on the photos are not brash and I am certain we have some Thekla's here, especially [10],[0]&[5]. I agree that plumage tone is a good pointer, so long as one understands the lighting on a particular observation - in photos its less trustworthy as you say and I wouldn't rely on it. In the Iberian peninsula I believe that Crested Lark never shows heavy blackish spotting like shown in [0]&[5]
 
For what it's worth my gut reaction for 10 was Thekla too. No experience with them, but have seen 100ds of Greek Crested Larks for what it's worth.
 
So when I say I find the bill shape of [10] more Thekla-like than Crested, you know what conclusion to draw. It's birds lke this that give me a headache. The bill doesn't look particularly 'stubby' but that lower mandible looks darn convex. The plumage does look rather too warm so I wonder if it was taken near to dusk (or dawn),

Dusk, correct


If helps, I attach cropped images for [0] [3] [5] [6] [8] (left to right)

Thanks a lot
 

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Thanks Maudoc that's helpful.

Like in the field, with more time and care I think I can see them better now and only [0] & [5] (and just possibly [6] ) may be Theklas. I am only sure about [10] now so apologies for any confusion by my part. Oh well, all I can say now is that this photo ID "lark" is not like being in the field at all - not even taking into account calls/song. I can now interpret the breast spotting shown on [0] & [5] as being OK for Crested. (Agh!).

Best wishes

Simon
 
Of course, only a fool or a brave man disagrees with Jane Turner and I'm a convinced coward. So when I say I find the bill shape of [10] more Thekla-like than Crested, you know what conclusion to draw. It's birds lke this that give me a headache. The bill doesn't look particularly 'stubby' but that lower mandible looks darn convex. The plumage does look rather too warm so I wonder if it was taken near to dusk (or dawn),

Not on these things- I operate its a Crested till proven otherwise policy - which is obviously not overly accurate on the difficult birds! I'm still not seeing this as Thekla based on the length of the bill and the apparent plumage - but not to say it isn't. Plus I only get to look at them hard one every 5 or so years, not on a daily basis.

I see 5 as a goodish Thekla
 
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