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Zen Ray ED 8X43 Gen 1: Does my sample have a problem at the edges?? (1 Viewer)

M

mannukiddo

Well-known member
Last week I finally got the Zen Ray ED 8x43 bin in my hands after it was delivered to me by a friend who was visiting India from the US. I got one of the last available generation 1 samples, which were ordered and subsequently delivered by Zen Ray in June end.

The usual attributes such as sharpness and a wide view that form the stupendous image of the Zen Ray ED 8X43 are all seen by me in my sample but there is one thing that is bothering me. I see a slight hazy/cloudy/milky semicircular arc towards the bottom of the image near about 4-5 mm from the extreme edge of the image circle. Now I have tried everything from adjusting the IPD as well as holding the bin in different ways to eliminate this problem but the haze is just there. Its not too obtrusive but some how I cannot get my self to ignore this. My other two bins the Nikon 10X32 LX-L which has an excellent edge performance as well as the Celestron Ultima 8X32 with 'not much to write home about edges' do not have this problem.

So all you Zen Ray users out there, any suggestions? Is this normal? Any advise be will sincerely appreciated.

Regards,

Mayur
 
Could it be internal reflections showing up when you're viewing toward bright sky? If the cloudy arc goes away when you view in an opposite direction, or where there is no sky visible (such as in a forest) then that may be the/a cause.
 
Hi, Thanks for your suggestion.
Initially I too thought these were internal reflections and tried to look at areas where there was no skyline visible, but even then the hazy arc still remains. I even took it to birding at the local wetland / mangrove patch but the hazy edges refused to go (Though I admit that viewing all the early migrants to these areas like the Red shanks and Green shanks through the Zen Ray was a joy).

Regards,

Mayur
 
It may be worth contacting ZR directly. Perhaps they have a representative somewhere near your could ship it to.
 
If this isn't a condition specific issue (ie, certain lighting conditions) then I would guess that either something happened to the bin in shipment or it could be a faulty specimen. I would contact Zen Ray directly. They will make it right.
 
Turn the binocular upside down and look through it and see if the arc has moved from the bottom of the image to the top. It is does I would think that it indicates a flaw somewhere inside.
Bob
 
Yes I have tried holding it upside down and even though the arc reduces, its still there. I have contacted Zen Ray and am waiting for a reply from them. I hope Zen Ray and their excellent customer service is able to find a solution for me though I am not sure how they can help me here in India.

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Regards,

Mayur
 
Mayur,

Your description is a dead ringer for the effect caused by a reflection at the edge of the exit pupil (actually formed at the edge of the objective or the focusing element). You may be able to see it if you move your eyes a foot or two back from from the eyepieces when you notice it. Look for a bright rim at the bottom of the exit pupil. The only mystery is why it appears under all conditions. I suspect you may tend to place your pupil slightly below the center of the optical axis when you look through the binoculars which will cause the bottom edge of the objective or focuser cell to be uncovered and expose your pupil to the reflection. Try moving the binocular up and down in front of your eyes when you notice the glare. If it disappears when the binocular is moved up you can be sure that's the problem. The only solution with this particular model of binocular may be to train yourself to position your pupil to avoid exposing the reflection.

Henry
 
I found this problem as well when using the ZEn(and other binoculars too)..I honestly thought ,In the ZEN ED case,that the Lubricant exposed between the Objective elements was the cause,And pointed it to Charles at ZEN-RAY..He was interested about it,and passed the comment to the designers,just in case...If it is the cause ,I am not sure,I only suspected it..In any case..The ZEN II HAS changed Lubricant formula,To help with temperature Changes,(and optimize performance with the new focuser,I assume)
It Would prove interesting if the New formula,prevents some of this internal reflections...
 
Last edited:
As I pointed out before maymayo the geometry is wrong for the lube to cause this problem (it would cause rather more generalized loss of contrast if the light could go anywhere). You need the reflection to be much closer to the axis to see it at the edge of the exit pupil.

But if you take a look at the sky with the bins away from your eye (as Henry suggests) you can see this reflection at the edge of the exit pupil.

Quite a few bins do suffer from this reflection from the "inside of the objective hood" outside of the objective lens (including say my Zeiss Victory 8x40). Usually the brightness is at the edge of the exit pupil and so with a 5mm exit pupil and a 3mm entrance pupil you can usually avoid it by eye placement. But in some cases it can be quite annoying.

I note that my Nikon SE manage to avoid it completely (at least in my 8x32 and 10x42).

In the OPs case I'm not sure if it is this effect or if he has some other problem that's causing the issue. Perhaps a digibinned photo might help?
 
henry link said:
Mayur,

Your description is a dead ringer for the effect caused by a reflection at the edge of the exit pupil (actually formed at the edge of the objective or the focusing element). You may be able to see it if you move your eyes a foot or two back from from the eyepieces when you notice it. Look for a bright rim at the bottom of the exit pupil. The only mystery is why it appears under all conditions. I suspect you may tend to place your pupil slightly below the center of the optical axis when you look through the binoculars which will cause the bottom edge of the objective or focuser cell to be uncovered and expose your pupil to the reflection. Try moving the binocular up and down in front of your eyes when you notice the glare. If it disappears when the binocular is moved up you can be sure that's the problem. The only solution with this particular model of binocular may be to train yourself to position your pupil to avoid exposing the reflection.

Henry
Click to expand...

The reason I originally brought up the possibility of internal reflections is because my Nikon Travelite V's seem to do the same thing. As Henry describes, if I place my eyes further up or down I can alleviate some of the haziness. Better still is to position the binocular in such a way that I am either looking somewhat down into the eyepieces or up into them. Holding the binoculars a foot or two away, with sky above, I can see a bright semicircle underneath the exit pupil. And if I hold them out in front of me, looking through the *objective* end, I can easily see bright semicircles of unpainted internal metal. I bet if Nikon had painted those there would be no haziness.
 
henry link said:
Mayur,

Your description is a dead ringer for the effect caused by a reflection at the edge of the exit pupil (actually formed at the edge of the objective or the focusing element). You may be able to see it if you move your eyes a foot or two back from from the eyepieces when you notice it. Look for a bright rim at the bottom of the exit pupil. The only mystery is why it appears under all conditions. I suspect you may tend to place your pupil slightly below the center of the optical axis when you look through the binoculars which will cause the bottom edge of the objective or focuser cell to be uncovered and expose your pupil to the reflection. Try moving the binocular up and down in front of your eyes when you notice the glare. If it disappears when the binocular is moved up you can be sure that's the problem. The only solution with this particular model of binocular may be to train yourself to position your pupil to avoid exposing the reflection.

Henry
Click to expand...
Thanks Henry for an accurate analysis of this problem. I suspect this is the exact reason of the hazy arcs. I will test it today and confirm it here.

In the meanwhile I am in an email conversation with Charles at Zen Ray who is trying to solve this issue and this really shows how committed Zen Ray is to solve my problem. Full Marks to Zen Ray on customer service.

Regards,

Mayur
 
I have confirmed my findings and Henry is absolutely correct in his analysis of this problem. Yesterday evening in the setting sun, I did exactly as suggested by Henry and there it was, a bright rim at the bottom of the exit pupil. This is the reason of the hazy arcs near the bottom. Looks like others are seeing this as well in their new ED2 bins.

So I am now trying to adjust and minimize these hazy arcs and there is not much even Zen ray can do about this.

Regards,

Mayur
 
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