Pallid Scop's Owl (1 Viewer)

Garry Bagnell · Jul 7, 2009

I have just got back from a family holiday to Turkey. During the holiday I decided to drive to Birecik on 29th June and have a look at the Owls in the famous Cafe.

I was shown two juveniles by restaurant workers. These birds were quite small and mostly grey all over with faint horizontal black barring on breast, thicker black barring to tail, the start of a black & white facial disk seems to appearing on one of the juveniles, yellow irises and a single note call to each other.

According to my field guide they appear to be Pallid Scop's Owls, but I have been informed that these birds could be Long-eared Owls.

Can anyone with Juvenile Owl experience clarify this situation.

Regards

Garry Bagnell

lewis20126 · Jul 7, 2009

Garry

Perhaps you could post one of your legendary "photographs"?

cheers, alan

Rob Smallwood · Jul 7, 2009

Not sure you've enough there to satisfy a Rarities Committee?

Jos Stratford · Jul 7, 2009

Not a comment on this record per se, but this locality does have Common Scops Owl too (I believe more commonly than Striated), which the locals often try to pass off as Striated to visiting birders. Visitors beware and ensure they identify for themselves

Garry Bagnell · Jul 8, 2009

I left my telescope & camera in the car and just went to the restaurant with my bins. So sadly no photographs were taken Alan.

Helsinki Birder · Jul 8, 2009

Hi gary,

Juv pale scops have zero streaking on the breast, crown and ear tufts. I assume that they were downy to cause trouble.

Long eared owl nestlings are very dark faced and oranged eyed and should be easily separated from any scops.

Owen

Garry Bagnell · Jul 8, 2009

Pariah said:
Hi gary,

Juv pale scops have zero streaking on the breast, crown and ear tufts. I assume that they were downy to cause trouble.

Long eared owl nestlings are very dark faced and oranged eyed and should be easily separated from any scops.

Owen

Hi Owen,

The juveniles I saw did not have orange eyes or black faces, but one of my friends said young owls were being fed by a long-eared owl (2 weeks prior to my trip). I did see the Long-eared Owl, and my 2 juvenile owls did fly close at one stage to Long-eared Owl, but I didn't see any other young owls.

Colins page 215, shows a Pale Scops Owl juvenile being barred. I just don't how reliable the Colins book is on Juvenile Pale Scops Owl.

I can't see why my birds are not Pale Scops Owl.

So if anyone can tell me why they are not Pale Scops Owl I would be delighted to be educated!

Cheers

Garry

Helsinki Birder · Jul 8, 2009

How developed were they gary? Were they mosty downy? What was the forecrown like?

Garry Bagnell · Jul 9, 2009

There was only a few downy feathers on the forecrown-crown section. Majority of head feathers were small grey feathers.

Hope that helps.

cheers

garry

Helsinki Birder · Jul 9, 2009

Juv pale scops should show barring on the head feathering also.
It sounds like you did indeed hav a juv pale scops.
But maybe the bird was a bit too young to call the ID for certain?

Nothing to be ashamed of if you are hesitant calling it....even the topbirders make mistakes on young owls at times....

I could tell ye a story...but I wont. 8-P

Owen

Garry Bagnell · Jul 10, 2009

Thanks Owen, I will keep the tick on my list til someone can prove otherwise.

Ghostly Vision · Jul 10, 2009

Garry

I would have thought that if there is any uncertainty a tick should NOT be on the list until proven, rather than the other way round.

It sounds to me like you are very unsure of what you saw if you cannot even decide whether the birds were Long-eared or some species of Scops. The size difference is enormous.

Juvenile Long-eared owls are famously noisy, their call sounding like a creaky gate. I'm not sure if either Scops species calls as a juvenile.

My advice - leave the tick off your list - you'll never be satisfied with it until you see one for certain, and it is only you who it matters to so you have to be satisfied in your own mind.

Sean

Rob Smallwood · Jul 10, 2009

I'd agree.

Out of interest - how long did it take to drive to and where from.

I've always fancied going but usually go to the SW of Turkey - I'd be interested in how easy it was to access from wherever you were?

Rob

Jos Stratford · Jul 10, 2009

Rob Smallwood said:
I've always fancied going but usually go to the SW of Turkey - I'd be interested in how easy it was to access from wherever you were?

The drive is very easy, but it is very long - if for example flying into any of the standard Med resorts such as Antalija on the south coast, it is a day's drive more or less - perhaps 700 or 800 km I think, far more if from the south-west resort towns. However, there are good sites on route, eg delta at Silifke, sites near Gaziantep, etc so the journey can be broken up.

It is worth mentioning that Birecek, the site mentioned here, is not always entirey safe due to PKK - Turkish military conflict. On one of my visits to this locality, during a period when the conflict was worse than now, I was held in a police station overnight 'for my own safety' (the police were fantastically friendly, providing jam sandwiches and tea limitless

) and I had to leave the town the next night due to security problems, when rather strange events began to happen at my hotel and I was being requested to meet some people across town!

...'tis a superb place though, and as far as I know, rather more settled these days.

halftwo · Jul 10, 2009

LOL, Jos, another adventure!

We too were held up on the road - the military were doing some nocturnal incursions against the Kurds. Again they were very polite - but insistent - we didn't get offered refreshments though!
(This is back in the 80s by the way, Rob.)
We too flew to Antalya and drove (& drove!)
Has the new dam affected the Blue-cheeked bee-eaters there?

H

Rob Smallwood · Jul 10, 2009

I'd always thought it was more of a birders destination than a place to call in with the family...

Garry Bagnell · Jul 14, 2009

Ghostly Vision said:
Garry

I would have thought that if there is any uncertainty a tick should NOT be on the list until proven, rather than the other way round.

It sounds to me like you are very unsure of what you saw if you cannot even decide whether the birds were Long-eared or some species of Scops. The size difference is enormous.

Juvenile Long-eared owls are famously noisy, their call sounding like a creaky gate. I'm not sure if either Scops species calls as a juvenile.

My advice - leave the tick off your list - you'll never be satisfied with it until you see one for certain, and it is only you who it matters to so you have to be satisfied in your own mind.

Sean

Hi Sean,

I was totally satisfied with my Pallid Scops Owls whilst at Birecik.

When I got back to Britain, LGRE (2-3 weeks before me) said he had only seen 3 juvenile owls being fed by a Long-eared Owl. I also contacted Peter Alfrey (He was present 2 weeks before me) and he saw 2 Juvenile Owls being fed by a Long-eared Owl. Plus he saw and adult Scops Owl.

I only saw 2 Juvenile Owls & an adult Long-eared Owl in a completely different parts of the Cafe. But all the Owls did get into two trees side by side at one stage.

My juvenile Owls were very small with bright yellow eyes. I genuinely believe I have seen Pallid Scops Owls. I started this thread because if I misidentified Pallid Scop's Owls and were infact Long-eared Owls, many people are bound to make the same mistake if they use the Collin's Guide.

I am waiting for Peter Alfrey to send me photos he took of the juvenile LE Owls he took. I hope they are large with black faces and orange eyes, just like the Collins book.

Hope my explanation helps.

Cheers

Garry

Garry Bagnell · Jul 14, 2009

Rob Smallwood said:
I'd agree.

Out of interest - how long did it take to drive to and where from.

I've always fancied going but usually go to the SW of Turkey - I'd be interested in how easy it was to access from wherever you were?

Rob

Hi Rob,

maybe your question has been answered. But in my situation I went on a family holiday to Konakli (full of beautiful young russian prostitutes b.t.w.). Which is a 1 hour 10 drive East of Antayla Airport.

I left my Villa at 9:15pm on Sunday night, drove through the night (killing a wild dog near Adana on route) and arrived at Gaziantep at 7am. I went too far east for Isikli or Durnalik. I eventually found the sites after flagging down non-english speaking Arabs.

Birecik is only 40 min east from of Gaziantep. Isikli/Durnalik are an hour west of Birecik.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Garry

Paul Marten · Jul 18, 2009

What's a pigeon?

Paul Marten · Jul 19, 2009

apologies for that last posting.Walked away from the computer to talk to a mate,and my son thought he'd be funny!

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