[FXM]

Hi Folks,

Weather coldish, but quite bearable, NE F2-3, overcast, misty. Snow in Beijing, to the north and to the south. Hope my airport bus gets through okay.

Might explain why c.350 Goldeneye, 90% adult drakes, suddenly appeared close inshore at the sandflats plus several drake Smew also. Up to now very few adult drakes of either species and a significant increase in numbers. Very few gulls at the beach, est. c.250 way down on previous counts. Perhaps there is a movement taking place, which is quite likely in view of the conditions further north.

I note the wind is predicted to turn NNW in two or three days time with sunshine also so ideal conditions for watching cranes should they be moving.

No bustard again and little new to report from the res. Sev Rustics and a Dauraian Redstart and then back to the hotel to pack ready for my bus to Beijing at 1300... I hope.

Cheers

Frank

[Gretchen]

Good travels! As you said, you've left a few things to see next time! I've enjoyed the reports immensely - sorry not to have gotten out with you (midtterms is tough time).

[martintbird]

Great that Tian Ma Hu proved a good spot, tho surprised no cranes there at the time (or even those Great Bustards - should be good for these too, I think). During visit in May this year, held a few hundred Wood Sands, plus assortment of other birds - even Chough right by the dirt track, around sea level; and we indeed only covered a part of the area.
Somewhere to try quite a few times in future, I believe.
"discovery" somewhat makes up for trashing of coastal habitats to the south - south of Luanhe, where I tried looking in spring, believing that some of areas I'd seen in late 80s must be still around, yet saw roads being built, new factories belching smoke. (Luanhe mouth still looked reasonable, though - not devastated as I'd thought maybe the case. I later had a quick look on Google Earth; should be some more spots on coast, tho the fact cranes roost on mudflats maybe shows the kind of pressure they are under).

Hope you've had a look at the crane migration paper, Mark. Inc mention of cranes passing after dark, sometimes well into evening - on days we've heard these, was optimum weather for migration, and I reckoned these were birds from stopovers well north, taking the chance to really move a distance.
As I recall, I've only seen small crane parties in morning; guessed they'd put down in so-so places, and maybe moving as looking for someplace better, maybe disturbed by people. Still think there's "bottleneck" for cranes etc along coast here, making them very choosy re weather for passing.
Wonder re cranes changing routes past Beidaihe: in spring 85, many were over or inland of Lotus Hills; but in autumns mainly to east of the hills, and tendency for big flocks to cut over the sea - maybe experienced birds leading them on short cuts towards N China Plain.

Here in Hong Kong, now cool, but it's been a warm autumn till recently. Wonder if temps in ne China have been warm till lately; if so, cranes may have lingered further north than they might normally have done - so even with strong cold surge, will take time for them to pass Beidaihe.
Now, seeing reports of snowfalls in Hebei, lingering birds must move.

Maybe useful to note: I've put report for autumns 86-90 at Beidaihe on my website; starts at:
http://www.drmartinwilliams.com/beid...mn-report.html
[also see links on left, to full species list, and conclusions]

[Gretchen]

I think Oct. this year was unusually warm, but Nov. has been very suddenly cold - hope it's not an ill surprise for those cranes still to the north! I wonder about anyone knowing where to get historical weather data for this area and north of here. It might help to look over temperature trends and migration movements (maybe ICF does this??).

I wonder about how spring and fall migrations vary too. Spring this year we had lots of egrets and herons flying right over campus (just north of the reservoir), but this fall it seems we've hardly seen any. Do birds sometimes have alternative northbound and southbound routes? or perhaps vary the route each time due to specific conditions?

Frank, you only missed 6 hours of snow and very low visibility yesterday afternoon (finally almost 1 1/2 inches on the ground) - trust you made the airport ok.

[DMW]

Where do the eastern populations of Great Bustard winter? Visited Poyang in late Nov / early Dec a few years ago, and didn't see any. Was told by reserve staff that they no longer winter at Poyang, possibly due to cessation of grass cutting.

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by martintbird

Great that Tian Ma Hu proved a good spot, tho surprised no cranes there at the time (or even those Great Bustards - should be good for these too, I think). During visit in May this year, held a few hundred Wood Sands, plus assortment of other birds - even Chough right by the dirt track, around sea level; and we indeed only covered a part of the area.
Somewhere to try quite a few times in future, I believe.
"discovery" somewhat makes up for trashing of coastal habitats to the south - south of Luanhe, where I tried looking in spring, believing that some of areas I'd seen in late 80s must be still around, yet saw roads being built, new factories belching smoke. (Luanhe mouth still looked reasonable, though - not devastated as I'd thought maybe the case. I later had a quick look on Google Earth; should be some more spots on coast, tho the fact cranes roost on mudflats maybe shows the kind of pressure they are under).

Something that needs to be addressed re the developments at Happy Island!
Also observed Cranes trying to come down on the Sandflats, especially as there is a fresh water supply run off from the reservoir. I suppose it would be regarded as a daft suggestion with the locals, but an out of bounds area in the late Autumn could produce some surprises. Have seen Red-crowned's come down here.

Hope you've had a look at the crane migration paper, Mark. Inc mention of cranes passing after dark, sometimes well into evening - on days we've heard these, was optimum weather for migration, and I reckoned these were birds from stopovers well north, taking the chance to really move a distance.
As I recall, I've only seen small crane parties in morning; guessed they'd put down in so-so places, and maybe moving as looking for someplace better, maybe disturbed by people. Still think there's "bottleneck" for cranes etc along coast here, making them very choosy re weather for passing.
Wonder re cranes changing routes past Beidaihe: in spring 85, many were over or inland of Lotus Hills; but in autumns mainly to east of the hills, and tendency for big flocks to cut over the sea - maybe experienced birds leading them on short cuts towards N China Plain.

Still reading and absorbing, comparing some data, I'll send you some stuff soon. You do mention late flying Cranes. We've seen Siberian, Red-crowned, Hooded and Common flying low over the SF's into the night, presumably led by birds that know the route. Early Crane parties may be on the increase? Though as suggested, often relatively small groups, off the top of my head, thirty is the biggest during our period.

but in autumns mainly to east of the hills, and tendency for big flocks to cut over the sea - maybe experienced birds leading them on short cuts towards N China Plain.

I'd agree. A lot less birds being seen from the tower now despite forewarning from the Sandflat's. Could it also be an effect of the surge in high rise buildings both north and now south of Beidaihe together with the effects of a long term drought?

Here in Hong Kong, now cool, but it's been a warm autumn till recently. Wonder if temps in ne China have been warm till lately; if so, cranes may have lingered further north than they might normally have done - so even with strong cold surge, will take time for them to pass Beidaihe.
Now, seeing reports of snowfalls in Hebei, lingering birds must move.

They should indeed, but also, maybe further improvement/protection of staging areas and some supplemental feeding?

Maybe useful to note: I've put report for autumns 86-90 at Beidaihe on my website; starts at:
http://www.drmartinwilliams.com/beid...mn-report.html
[also see links on left, to full species list, and conclusions]

Plenty to read there!

Great stuff Martin.

[Paul Higson]

Just got a text from Frank, he has landed safely at Schippol, and is now heading into Amsterdam for a night of R&R........

Cheers,

Paul

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Paul Higson

Just got a text from Frank, he has landed safely at Schippol, and is now heading into Amsterdam for a night of R&R........

Cheers,

Paul

I bet

[martintbird]

Where do the eastern populations of Great Bustard winter? Visited Poyang in late Nov / early Dec a few years ago, and didn't see any. Was told by reserve staff that they no longer winter at Poyang, possibly due to cessation of grass cutting.

maybe also cessation in existence of sizeable part of the bustard population...

[DMW]

Originally Posted by martintbird

maybe also cessation in existence of sizeable part of the bustard population...

No doubt, but since the population isn't nil, the birds must winter somewhere...!

[FXM]

Originally Posted by Gretchen

I think Oct. this year was unusually warm, but Nov. has been very suddenly cold - hope it's not an ill surprise for those cranes still to the north! I wonder about anyone knowing where to get historical weather data for this area and north of here. It might help to look over temperature trends and migration movements (maybe ICF does this??).

Frank, you only missed 6 hours of snow and very low visibility yesterday afternoon (finally almost 1 1/2 inches on the ground) - trust you made the airport ok.

Hi Folks,

Finally made it back to UK. Snow was falling as I left Qinhuangdao via the Airport bus but managed to make it to Beijing okay despite having to stop three times to enable the driver to clear the snow from the windscreen. We passed two snowploughs on the way and I noted we didn't make the usual stop at the halfway service station. Driver was clearly taking no chances. Was in my hotel room just 4.5hrs after departure. Not at all bad. Good job I didn't leave it a day later by the sounds of it Gretchen.

One of the Dutch team was talking about a website he uses for historical weather records. I'll get the name of it from him if possible.

The plane was lurching a bit as we landed in Amsterdam so it came as no surprise that the landing at my local airport of Humberside in a Fokker 70 was exciting. We'd been warned that excessive winds might mean us diverting so several passengers took excessive alchohol to lessen their nerves. As it happened the wind was within the acceptable landing limits.

Frank

P.S. Paul, the only thing I sampled in Amsterdam was a slice of pizza, a coffee and a kit kat.

[Paul Higson]

P.S. Paul, the only thing I sampled in Amsterdam was a slice of pizza, a coffee and a kit kat.[/quote]

Which is slang for.......??

[FXM]

Crane Sightings and Associated Weather and Pollution

Cranes were noted on just four dates: 27th and 29th Oct and 2nd and 3rd Nov. There were 17 groups involving 367 birds as follows:

Notation
Date.
Then location i.e. SF = Sand Flats; LH = Lotus Hills; Res. = Beidaihe Reservoir
Then time.
Then Observer(s) D = Dutch team of three; FXM = myself; MP = Mke Parker
Then Group size - aged where possible: ads = adults; juv = juvenile

Common
27th SF 1600 D 20, 10, 50
2nd SF 1510 FXM/MP 6 ads
2nd SF 1545-1600 FXM/MP 10 inc. 4 juvs
2nd LH 1615 D 14
2nd SF 1620-1635 FXM/MP 27 inc 9 juvs
2nd LH 1645 D 35
2nd SF 1650-1705 FXM 13 inc 5 juvs

Hooded
29th LH 1315 D 25
29th LH 1415 D 31

Japanese
27th SF 1715 D 68
29th LH 1415 D 2
3rd Res. 0855 MP 5

Demoiselle
29th LH 1415 D 3 (Picked out later from photo of 31 Hooded)

Siberian
29th LH 1415 D 9 inc. 1 juv
2nd LH 1650 D 39


Weather and Pollution
27th and 29th I had not arrived at this point.

30th NE-N F6-7. Cloud 0/8 then 8/8. Cold. Rain to N and W. Vis. pretty good.

31st NW-N-NNE. CLoud 8/8 then 3/8 then 8/8. V. Cold. Vis. pretty good.

1st NE-NW F4-5. Cloud 3/8 -7/8. Vis. pretty good. Heavy o/night rain.

2nd SW F4-5. Cloud 0/8. Vis. good.

3rd SW F4-5 F5-6 by midday. Cloud 8/8. Cold. Pollution HIGH. Vis. poor 1000m

4th WSW F3-4. Cloud 0/8. Pollution HIGH. Visibilty 1000m

5th SW F2-3 gusting 4. Cloud 0/8. Pollution VERY HIGH. Visibility 600m

6th WSW F1-2 then F2-3 midday. Cloud 0/8. Pollution HIGH. Vis. 800m

7th Flat calm.. Cloud 0/8. Pollution VERY HIGH. Vis. max 600. worst day yet.

8th NE F6-7. Cloud 0/8 then 4/8 midday. Cold. Vis. misty to start and hazy but much improved.

9th N F7. Could 8/8. Cold. Occasional light rain. Vis. poor but improved.

10th N F5 gusting. Cloud 8/8. V. Cold. Vis pretty good

11th NE F2-3 Cloud 1/8 then 4/8. Cold . Vis pretty good.

Summary

The c.600 Siberian Cranes at Shen Yang moved south during the very poor conditions at Beidaihe and thus were not seen over Beidaihe although there were reports of Siberian and Hooded passing over Change Li to the South.

When visibility improved towards the latter dates there were no cranes left at Shen Yang hence the lack of sightings.

c.2000 Siberian Cranes began their southward migration from Mo He only towards the latter part of this trip and had not reached Sheng Yang by my departure date. Provided they don't get another run of SW winds they should get a spectacular Sibe migration very shortly. Wonder if many will be watching?

Hope this helps make the picture a little clearer regarding the movement of cranes this autumn

Thanks

Frank

[FXM]

Originally Posted by Gretchen

Good travels! As you said, you've left a few things to see next time! I've enjoyed the reports immensely - sorry not to have gotten out with you (midtterms is tough time).

Maybe next time Gretchen? Keep us posted with anything of interest please.

Cheers for now

Frank

[rockfowl]

Well done Frank,

Some excellent obs' and evidently trying times - 50% of your visiting period wiped by pollution problems.
Interesting that the Demoiselle's were with the Hooded, in previous years they've been in with the Common and I think there were three last year after we left, wonder if they are the same birds?

And yes, Gretchen,

Should be 'snowing' Cranes over Qinhuangdao very soon!

[Gretchen]

I went out for a look this afternoon, a couple hours on the sandflats. Cold and crisp but little wind - great clear day for seeing I thought - but I didn't see any! I think though I'm an amateur of amateurs I should be able to see them (they're not small!) - but nothing! People talk about birds that don't actually exist except in others' claims. I'm afraid I'm still at that stage for cranes

I'll let you guys know if I see anything, but don't hold your breath - it doesn't seem too likely.

If I'm in town next year, I look forward to being a bigger part of the crane watching effort (my thesis will be finished by then or I'll be done in!).

[rockfowl]

Gretchen,

Listen out for this call, it's both evocative (to all that have heard it I think) and unmistakable - http://www.xeno-canto.org/sounds/upl...borgarsjon.mp3
You can usually hear them coming from some distance and most sound pretty similar.

Siberian Crane is much quieter, bit like a child's toy and often harder to pick up, sometimes only when they're right on top of you - http://www.trackingcranes.org/en/sou...n_crane_01.wav

If you hear either, look up!

[Gretchen]

Thanks Mark! It would seem that even a novice couldn't miss that

How much of the time they are traveling do they call? Surely it must be an on and off thing (it would be exhausting to make that clatter the whole way!).

[rockfowl]

They pretty much 'clatter' all the way! Certainly in my experience...Some groups of adult Cranes can be largely silent, but on the whole, they communicate a lot!

[FXM]

Originally Posted by Gretchen

Thanks Mark! It would seem that even a novice couldn't miss that

How much of the time they are traveling do they call? Surely it must be an on and off thing (it would be exhausting to make that clatter the whole way!).

Hi Gretchen,

When I was fortunate enough to see cranes this Autumn I could hear their calls getting louder and louder as they drew closer and closer. Most of the time it was the call of the Common Crane that most people are familiar with but one of the groups, it contained juveniles, passed directly above my head and I could hear much quieter single calls. I'm not sure whether it was the juveniles calling or perhaps it was the adults pointing out the windmill on the Sandflats to them.

It is an incredible feeling when you are able to experience this sort of thing. With all the Sibes lined up waiting to come down I'd recommend you try and get there if you can.

Cheers

Frank

[FXM]

Originally Posted by martintbird

Great that Tian Ma Hu proved a good spot, tho surprised no cranes there at the time (or even those Great Bustards - should be good for these too, I think). During visit in May this year, held a few hundred Wood Sands, plus assortment of other birds - even Chough right by the dirt track, around sea level; and we indeed only covered a part of the area.
Somewhere to try quite a few times in future, I believe.
"discovery" somewhat makes up for trashing of coastal habitats to the south - south of Luanhe, where I tried looking in spring, believing that some of areas I'd seen in late 80s must be still around, yet saw roads being built, new factories belching smoke. (Luanhe mouth still looked reasonable, though - not devastated as I'd thought maybe the case. I later had a quick look on Google Earth; should be some more spots on coast, tho the fact cranes roost on mudflats maybe shows the kind of pressure they are under).

Hope you've had a look at the crane migration paper, Mark. Inc mention of cranes passing after dark, sometimes well into evening - on days we've heard these, was optimum weather for migration, and I reckoned these were birds from stopovers well north, taking the chance to really move a distance.
As I recall, I've only seen small crane parties in morning; guessed they'd put down in so-so places, and maybe moving as looking for someplace better, maybe disturbed by people. Still think there's "bottleneck" for cranes etc along coast here, making them very choosy re weather for passing.
Wonder re cranes changing routes past Beidaihe: in spring 85, many were over or inland of Lotus Hills; but in autumns mainly to east of the hills, and tendency for big flocks to cut over the sea - maybe experienced birds leading them on short cuts towards N China Plain.

Here in Hong Kong, now cool, but it's been a warm autumn till recently. Wonder if temps in ne China have been warm till lately; if so, cranes may have lingered further north than they might normally have done - so even with strong cold surge, will take time for them to pass Beidaihe.
Now, seeing reports of snowfalls in Hebei, lingering birds must move.

Maybe useful to note: I've put report for autumns 86-90 at Beidaihe on my website; starts at:
http://www.drmartinwilliams.com/beid...mn-report.html
[also see links on left, to full species list, and conclusions]

Hi Martin,

Tian Ma Hu looks great for cranes and bustards and although I had a good look around from some of the vantage points in the surrounding hills I could easily have overlooked a distant bustard in the very far fields. Also interesting what you say about the Choughs because I thought I heard at least one calling but I never actually saw one and in the end had to 'leave' it. Maybe I did hear one after all.

You mention a crane migration paper Martin, is that in circulation or does it have restricted access? Would be very interested in looking at that if at all possible.

Just been reading through your 86-90 report. Very detailed and very interesting. SW winds not so good say the hawkers and my observations might seem to concur but I would have thought in reality they might actually be good winds for cranes to move on - more so than raptors perhaps. I could be wrong but I do agree that NW winds would seem to be the best for cranes in terms of seeing them over Beidaihe. I'll have another good look through it this week. Great stuff.

Cheers for now.

Frank

[martintbird]

Hi Frank:

I look forward to hearing more from Tian Ma Hu; and indeed to getting back there sometime.

The crane paper was quite a few years ago, for an international crane meeting. Also did paper on Oriental Stork migration over Beidaihe.

I photographed papers, and made into simple Word doc to email to Mark. Happy to send you if you email me: martin [at] drmartinwilliams.com [just seen I can't attach files to email form here on birdforum, so need email address and don't think I have it]
- could likely send others who are interested, too; seems fine to me if one or both circulated.

Glad you've had a look at the autumns report. I believe cranes greatly favour winds in migration direction, so southwesterlies won't help, tho can be good in spring.

Martin

[martintbird]

Gretchen: cranes will surely fly over and/or close to Qinhaungdao, tho of course hard or impossible to hear and see from street level.
Wonder if there are any high buildings you could get to top of, use as lookouts.
Or even a vantage
Wonder if you might have time for this on some days, even in tea break, when can't get to Beidaihe

A fine day with northerlies, maybe from 2-5pm, can be good time to watch out for cranes. [They can pass on overcast days, too; but look and sound esp stellar on chill days w blue skies; or bluish nowadays I suppose!]
Martin