[John B (not the sloop)]

Time to stop pussyfooting around surely.........

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6898173.ece

[Stewart J.]

Dismal reading

ATB

Stewart

[James_Owen]

What I struggle to fathom is that grouse numbers are low enough the hunting lot think Hen Harriers need to be completely eradicated. Maybe not as a conscious thing among them, but certainly by effect.

[Amarillo]

Originally Posted by John B (not the sloop)

Time to stop pussyfooting around surely.........

By that do you mean ban grouse shooting?

[John B (not the sloop)]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

By that do you mean ban grouse shooting?

Well only if I get made World Dictator.....

In the interim we'll have to settle for efficient enforcement of existing laws, proper monitoring of shooting estates which will operate under annual licenses, suitable penalties for transgressions, Estate owners/managers to take the rap when things go bad, and probably some kind of incentive scheme to encourage successful HH breeding on suitable landholdings.

[abagguley]

...and breaking Prince Harry's trigger finger?

[John B (not the sloop)]

Originally Posted by abagguley

...and breaking Prince Harry's trigger finger?

I turned republican that day (and not in the US political sense).....

[Peewit]

Sad reading indeed, and most of it is from a lack of understanding by people who seen to think that BoP's have no rights whatsoever to live anywhere in the UK.

Just misplaced ignorance, and a misguided view of the world. about wildlife. Besides the true fact the birds where here long before humans over populated the place.

Like you say John it does make ones blood boil reading about the BoP's fate in the future.

Wish it was not the ignorant uneducated few who took the law into their own hands at the cost of BoP's lives

Regards
Kathy
x

[Himalaya]

Truly sad that we could end up losing a spectacular bird.

[Amarillo]

Agree with you John - at the end of the day, money talks and in a situation like this we need a scheme by which the landowners gain financially by having harriers on their land and are fined substantially when they are found to have killed them.

[Capercaillie71]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

we need a scheme by which the landowners gain financially by having harriers on their land

Unfortunately, financial gain is not a major motivation for most people managing grouse moors, so giving them a few pounds for having harriers is not going to be of the slightest interest to them

Originally Posted by Amarillo

and are fined substantially when they are found to have killed them.

Yes, although the problem is finding sufficient evidence for a successful prosecution.

[Amarillo]

Originally Posted by Capercaillie71

Unfortunately, financial gain is not a major motivation for most people managing grouse moors, so giving them a few pounds for having harriers is not going to be of the slightest interest to them

Good point, hadn't thought of that

Maybe there is a case for simply banning it then? - its been done with foxhunting, which has no negative conservation impact

Maybe a 10 year warning could be given? Either the estates accept birds of prey on their land or grouse shooting is banned in 10 years time. 10 years would be more than enough time to assess whether persecution had stopped.

[liverpool_bob]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

Maybe there is a case for simply banning it then? - its been done with foxhunting, which has no negative conservation impact

Maybe a 10 year warning could be given? Either the estates accept birds of prey on their land or grouse shooting is banned in 10 years time. 10 years would be more than enough time to assess whether persecution had stopped.

Landowners with no grouse to shoot may well return moorland to forestry - so the harriers would be lost anyway.

[John B (not the sloop)]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

Good point, hadn't thought of that

Maybe there is a case for simply banning it then? - its been done with foxhunting, which has no negative conservation impact

Maybe a 10 year warning could be given? Either the estates accept birds of prey on their land or grouse shooting is banned in 10 years time. 10 years would be more than enough time to assess whether persecution had stopped.

The argument goes something like "If we don't manage the moors for Grouse shooting there's no other incentive to keep them as they are now. Far better to afforest, or replace the heather with something else that brings in income - either way the Hen Harriers (and Golden Plover, Greenshanks, Snipe etc etc) are gone".

I'd ban driven shoots tomorrow if I could, but the problem is - what replaces them?

[PaulE]

Originally Posted by Amarillo

Good point, hadn't thought of that

Maybe there is a case for simply banning it then? - its been done with foxhunting, which has no negative conservation impact

Maybe a 10 year warning could be given? Either the estates accept birds of prey on their land or grouse shooting is banned in 10 years time. 10 years would be more than enough time to assess whether persecution had stopped.

i shouldn't bank on foxhunting being banned after the next election according to last sundays countryfile if the tories win they will overturn the ban
as for hen harriers in my opinion the only way will be to ban estates from grouse shooting that are found to be persecuting them although proving it could be difficult

cheers