Paultricounty
Well-known member
And imo an all around nicer pair of binoculars. 😁
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Analysis Paralysis- Please help me choose! (2 Viewers)
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Thanks all. This forum is my go to when I dip into the binocular world, a great resource. I think my idea of an all round bin is likely different than the average person here. Things like speed of focus, ruggedness, even being waterproof is not a major concern to me. I'm not going to be out patiently waiting in the rain and curse when I miss focus on that rare bird. Above all I want to be immersed in the view. Clearly, the optics are the major contributer but there must be another key ingredient. I can appreciate that the 10x35 Conquests have good optics, but blackout issues aside, something was missing. Maybe what wow'd me in the EL was the flatter larger FOV. Or something in the colour rendetion. What draws me to trying the EII's is that more often than not people comment on being immersed in the view. I haven't experienced this porro prism stereoscopic 3D effect, maybe it's that. Or, maybe the MHG will give me that balance of everything. Ulitmately, I know it is in the eye of the beholder and only I can answer that.
@Maljunulo, I agree. I need to stop over analyzing. I want the best optics for my money. Perhaps my error was that I set a budget and later had regrets about that, I think partly because the Zeiss didn't have the effect I hoped/ expected. It could be that I'll not achieve what I want in my budget and the SV EL has spoilt me. I have to balance that with my intended use case, so whilst I don't intend them to be a single use instrument, I am not going to use them as often or as widely as most here. Unfortunately, lining up my options at a dealer here is not viable. Fortunately, I do have the opportunity to have some delivered and returned at a small fee if necessary.
I've made up my mind I need to scratch this EII itch so that is getting ordered today. I will likely compliment that with one other. I think one of the MHG variants is most likely. Then, I'll make peace with whatever bin I choose and rue the day I ever looked through (and sold) the SV EL
I'll update the post when I've made a final choice but happy to discuss and receive more recommendations in the meantime!
Godt valg!Thanks all. This forum is my go to when I dip into the binocular world, a great resource. I think my idea of an all round bin is likely different than the average person here. Things like speed of focus, ruggedness, even being waterproof is not a major concern to me. I'm not going to be out patiently waiting in the rain and curse when I miss focus on that rare bird. Above all I want to be immersed in the view. Clearly, the optics are the major contributer but there must be another key ingredient. I can appreciate that the 10x35 Conquests have good optics, but blackout issues aside, something was missing. Maybe what wow'd me in the EL was the flatter larger FOV. Or something in the colour rendetion. What draws me to trying the EII's is that more often than not people comment on being immersed in the view. I haven't experienced this porro prism stereoscopic 3D effect, maybe it's that. Or, maybe the MHG will give me that balance of everything. Ulitmately, I know it is in the eye of the beholder and only I can answer that.
@Maljunulo, I agree. I need to stop over analyzing. I want the best optics for my money. Perhaps my error was that I set a budget and later had regrets about that, I think partly because the Zeiss didn't have the effect I hoped/ expected. It could be that I'll not achieve what I want in my budget and the SV EL has spoilt me. I have to balance that with my intended use case, so whilst I don't intend them to be a single use instrument, I am not going to use them as often or as widely as most here. Unfortunately, lining up my options at a dealer here is not viable. Fortunately, I do have the opportunity to have some delivered and returned at a small fee if necessary.
I've made up my mind I need to scratch this EII itch so that is getting ordered today. I will likely compliment that with one other. I think one of the MHG variants is most likely. Then, I'll make peace with whatever bin I choose and rue the day I ever looked through (and sold) the SV EL
I'll update the post when I've made a final choice but happy to discuss and receive more recommendations in the meantime!
I hope you like your EII's, they really are a lovely bino and after a bit of a hiccup (mine and Amazon's fault) with a first pair, I saw the light and ordered another.
I am delighted with them and take care to make sure that I keep them dry. But the view is worth it and I must admit to reaching for them over my Habicht's for their truly delightful focus mechanism when birdwatching or just enjoying the majesty of the landscape.
Good luck!
Everyone wants to get the best optics for their money.
Unfortunately, the best cost more than the not-best, and only you know how much you can/are willing to spend.
You can tumble down the bottomless rat-hole of “is the difference in optical performance ‘worth’ the price differential?” You can fall for the specious argument “Twice the money doesn’t get you twice the performance.”
When you set a budget, you have to be able to accept the limitations and compromises of instruments within that budget. You can’t buy a Ferrari for $10,000.
Perhaps I’m just confused.
Unfortunately, the best cost more than the not-best, and only you know how much you can/are willing to spend.
You can tumble down the bottomless rat-hole of “is the difference in optical performance ‘worth’ the price differential?” You can fall for the specious argument “Twice the money doesn’t get you twice the performance.”
When you set a budget, you have to be able to accept the limitations and compromises of instruments within that budget. You can’t buy a Ferrari for $10,000.
Perhaps I’m just confused.
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I hope so too! Or the 8x40 Zeiss. As long as I like one of them. Good to hear you’re happy with yours 😊
Paultricounty
Well-known member
It is very easy to get infected here with NANBS (need a new binocular syndrome). It’s similar to TDS , but there is a cure for the former 🤣😜. Sorry i couldn’t resist, I know, take it over to ruffled feathers.
Well, have no idea what TDS is but NANBS doesn’t sound so bad 😆 Curious what the cure is. Don’t say an SV EL please.
Nor do I.
tenex
reality-based
... getting out and enjoying the bins one has.
Ah, I see! My experience with telescopes is the more I use them more I buy! Although, I also still buy them when I’m not using them. Seems like there is no cure in my case!
Anyway, an update. The Conquest 8x42 and Nikon E2 should arrive by the end of this week so, I’ll try give a summary of my thoughts here.
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Ok, the binoculars have been with me for two days or more now. Here’s some thoughts on them. These are more subjective, experience based observations rather than a technical review. I’ll take them in order of arrival and use.
Zeiss Conquest 10x32
Build and ergonomics
The binocular is pretty non descript but very well built and robust. I wouldn’t be worried if I dropped these! They’re a nice weight in hand but I struggled to find a comfortable position when holding them. I found myself constantly shifting to find a better hold. The focus wheel was smooth and very fast. Almost too fast, I found I overshot focus more than once. Not really a problem for me. The major issue was eye placement though. I regularly experienced blackouts. I assumed this might be due to the smaller exit pupil but after trying the 8x42 it’s definitely not just that! Also, the eye cups were very stiff and the rubber was constantly sticking on the threads.
Optics
When I did get eye placement right the view was very nice! I commented before that I didn’t get the wow factor when I first looked through them but some friends and family did when I let them try. These are quality bino’s. They are bright, sharp across most of the field and CA control was good to my eye. It was visible though. Mostly at the edge of the field but I could induce it on axis in certain situations. Colours were quite neutral and cool as others have mentioned.
Zeiss Conquest 8x42
Build and ergonomics
Much of what I wrote about the 10x32 are relevant here. The differences are that I found hand placement easier with the longer barrels, so these felt more comfortable in hand despite the extra weight. However, I found eye placement even harder here. So, the exit pupil must not be the explanation as to why I don’t get on with the Conquest line seemingly. I can assume it’s the eye cups that are the issue. Perhaps if I ordered these replacement ones Zeiss provide free of charge my problems would be solved. Seems like it’s enough of a known issue that they should just include the alternative ones as standard though.
Optics
The same pleasant view of the 10x32 greeted me. Although it felt a little brighter, a little sharper. There seemed to be more clarity. All this very subtle though. I was surprised to find more CA in this sample than I did with 10x32. It wasn’t overly bothersome though. However, the more I looked and compared against the 10x32 the more something bothered me. I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. The view just didn’t feel as natural as the 10x32 even though I had subjectively concluded it was better optically.
Nikon EII 8x30
Build and ergonomics
My kids asked me if these were from the olden times 😂. I call it classic design and I actually quite like it. They are well built but definitely more fragile than the robust Conquests. I found myself subconsciously placing them down more carefully than the other two. I immediately found them comfortable to hold, with my middle fingertips naturally finding a resting position between the barrel and the hinge. The movement of the hinge has a reassuring resistance but slow. The focuser was similar, smooth, precise but the action was slow, at least compared to the Conquests. I can imagine if you wanted to get these to your eyes quickly and focused it would be frustrating. All in all, I was impressed though.
Optics
I have to be honest and say I wanted and expected to like these more. When I put them to my eyes they didn’t immediately meet my, probably unreasonable, expectations. The first thing I actually noticed was that I could rest my eyes against the eyecups and look around. No black outs! I couldn’t fault the view at all. It was very sharp, bright and I could immediately appreciate how wide it was. It was certainly an easy, enjoyable view. CA was well controlled but it was there, probably more so than the others. Overall, I felt the image quality was better than either Conquest but I couldn’t yet conclusively say why that was the case.
A Comparison
I then spent the best part of two days comparing all three in various scenarios and conditions. This is where I started to recognise the differences between the bins.
It was hard to objectively judge resolution and contrast so I’ll speak about apparent sharpness. They are all sharp to my eyes but the 8x42 and EII were noticeably sharper than the 10x32. There may be an element of image stability that has negatively affected the 10x32 but this is what I see in real world use. There was only a couple of occasions that I noted and appreciated the extra magnification over the sharpness and clarity of the other two. In the brief test in low light the 8x42 pulled away from the other two, probably as expected.
While trying to make a decision what was the sharper of the 8x42 and Nikon, it hit me what had bothered me earlier about the 8x42. It was the FOV. It wasn’t as obvious compared to the 10x32 due to the true wider field of the 42 but when looking through the Nikon I could now appreciate the tunnel vision people speak of. In the end I couldn’t completely decide what was sharper on axis between the 8x42 and EII. I’m giving the nod to the Nikon partly because the stereoscopic view seemingly allowed me to see more, and that I could put my eyes to them and get the view immediately. I found I had to work to get the best view from the 8x42. In normal viewing, edge sharpness was not something I noticed, however when I checked the 8x42 had best, followed by the 10x32 then the Nikon. Since the Nikon has such a large field it didn’t seem to bother me.
As mentioned, CA was apparent on all three bins but wasn’t an issue for me in normal viewing conditions. I could actually induce very slight CA on axis on all of them and this increased approaching the field stop. They were quite similar overall but the 10x32 fared best and Nikon was worst. Colour rendition was quite similar in all three but I think the Nikon is ever so slightly warmer, still natural but with a bit more saturation and punch that appealed to me.
Conclusion
If you’ve made it this far you’ve probably guessed the Nikon EII has won the day. The morning after the ‘tests’ I awoke looking forward to taking it out. I knew for sure
then it was the right choice for me. Optically it was better than both Conquests and for virtually everything else that mattered for my use case. Also, the 3D porro view, pardon the pun, certainly adds an extra dimension to the viewing experience. I’m still not convinced I’ve replicated the SV EL experience but I’m happy for now. This has also prompted me to take my first picture of a bird. Quite happy with it if I do say so myself!
Thanks again for the comments and input.
Zeiss Conquest 10x32
Build and ergonomics
The binocular is pretty non descript but very well built and robust. I wouldn’t be worried if I dropped these! They’re a nice weight in hand but I struggled to find a comfortable position when holding them. I found myself constantly shifting to find a better hold. The focus wheel was smooth and very fast. Almost too fast, I found I overshot focus more than once. Not really a problem for me. The major issue was eye placement though. I regularly experienced blackouts. I assumed this might be due to the smaller exit pupil but after trying the 8x42 it’s definitely not just that! Also, the eye cups were very stiff and the rubber was constantly sticking on the threads.
Optics
When I did get eye placement right the view was very nice! I commented before that I didn’t get the wow factor when I first looked through them but some friends and family did when I let them try. These are quality bino’s. They are bright, sharp across most of the field and CA control was good to my eye. It was visible though. Mostly at the edge of the field but I could induce it on axis in certain situations. Colours were quite neutral and cool as others have mentioned.
Zeiss Conquest 8x42
Build and ergonomics
Much of what I wrote about the 10x32 are relevant here. The differences are that I found hand placement easier with the longer barrels, so these felt more comfortable in hand despite the extra weight. However, I found eye placement even harder here. So, the exit pupil must not be the explanation as to why I don’t get on with the Conquest line seemingly. I can assume it’s the eye cups that are the issue. Perhaps if I ordered these replacement ones Zeiss provide free of charge my problems would be solved. Seems like it’s enough of a known issue that they should just include the alternative ones as standard though.
Optics
The same pleasant view of the 10x32 greeted me. Although it felt a little brighter, a little sharper. There seemed to be more clarity. All this very subtle though. I was surprised to find more CA in this sample than I did with 10x32. It wasn’t overly bothersome though. However, the more I looked and compared against the 10x32 the more something bothered me. I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. The view just didn’t feel as natural as the 10x32 even though I had subjectively concluded it was better optically.
Nikon EII 8x30
Build and ergonomics
My kids asked me if these were from the olden times 😂. I call it classic design and I actually quite like it. They are well built but definitely more fragile than the robust Conquests. I found myself subconsciously placing them down more carefully than the other two. I immediately found them comfortable to hold, with my middle fingertips naturally finding a resting position between the barrel and the hinge. The movement of the hinge has a reassuring resistance but slow. The focuser was similar, smooth, precise but the action was slow, at least compared to the Conquests. I can imagine if you wanted to get these to your eyes quickly and focused it would be frustrating. All in all, I was impressed though.
Optics
I have to be honest and say I wanted and expected to like these more. When I put them to my eyes they didn’t immediately meet my, probably unreasonable, expectations. The first thing I actually noticed was that I could rest my eyes against the eyecups and look around. No black outs! I couldn’t fault the view at all. It was very sharp, bright and I could immediately appreciate how wide it was. It was certainly an easy, enjoyable view. CA was well controlled but it was there, probably more so than the others. Overall, I felt the image quality was better than either Conquest but I couldn’t yet conclusively say why that was the case.
A Comparison
I then spent the best part of two days comparing all three in various scenarios and conditions. This is where I started to recognise the differences between the bins.
It was hard to objectively judge resolution and contrast so I’ll speak about apparent sharpness. They are all sharp to my eyes but the 8x42 and EII were noticeably sharper than the 10x32. There may be an element of image stability that has negatively affected the 10x32 but this is what I see in real world use. There was only a couple of occasions that I noted and appreciated the extra magnification over the sharpness and clarity of the other two. In the brief test in low light the 8x42 pulled away from the other two, probably as expected.
While trying to make a decision what was the sharper of the 8x42 and Nikon, it hit me what had bothered me earlier about the 8x42. It was the FOV. It wasn’t as obvious compared to the 10x32 due to the true wider field of the 42 but when looking through the Nikon I could now appreciate the tunnel vision people speak of. In the end I couldn’t completely decide what was sharper on axis between the 8x42 and EII. I’m giving the nod to the Nikon partly because the stereoscopic view seemingly allowed me to see more, and that I could put my eyes to them and get the view immediately. I found I had to work to get the best view from the 8x42. In normal viewing, edge sharpness was not something I noticed, however when I checked the 8x42 had best, followed by the 10x32 then the Nikon. Since the Nikon has such a large field it didn’t seem to bother me.
As mentioned, CA was apparent on all three bins but wasn’t an issue for me in normal viewing conditions. I could actually induce very slight CA on axis on all of them and this increased approaching the field stop. They were quite similar overall but the 10x32 fared best and Nikon was worst. Colour rendition was quite similar in all three but I think the Nikon is ever so slightly warmer, still natural but with a bit more saturation and punch that appealed to me.
Conclusion
If you’ve made it this far you’ve probably guessed the Nikon EII has won the day. The morning after the ‘tests’ I awoke looking forward to taking it out. I knew for sure
then it was the right choice for me. Optically it was better than both Conquests and for virtually everything else that mattered for my use case. Also, the 3D porro view, pardon the pun, certainly adds an extra dimension to the viewing experience. I’m still not convinced I’ve replicated the SV EL experience but I’m happy for now. This has also prompted me to take my first picture of a bird. Quite happy with it if I do say so myself!
Thanks again for the comments and input.
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Elkhornsun
Well-known member
My wife does not like using a 10x bino but that is what I use the most to gain the added image magnification. Weights and overall size can vary widely. I owned a Nikon 12x42 that was smaller and lighter than most 8x42 binoculars.
When I was looking at 12x50 I was surprised at the wide range of weights depending on the manufacturer. The Meopta were a half pound heavier than the Vortex. The heavier the binocular the less likely I am going to use it as a tripod mount is not for me a great solution as it means carrying a tripod around.
When I was looking at 12x50 I was surprised at the wide range of weights depending on the manufacturer. The Meopta were a half pound heavier than the Vortex. The heavier the binocular the less likely I am going to use it as a tripod mount is not for me a great solution as it means carrying a tripod around.
tehri
Well-known member
Nice feedback and good final decision !... And good photo !
I know it wasn't your budget, but please, at least once in your life, have fun and look at the world through NL's Pure !!!
( Do it quickly, and not alone because NANBS disorder possible !! ).
