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AOS to discard patronyms in English names (1 Viewer)

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This coming alongside the WGAC reconciliation process I suspect might result in a death blow to the AOS as an overall authority for checklist purposes. Especially since we are now up to two committee member retirements (that I know of).

No matter where you fall, it does feel like the way this decision was made was poorly thought out. At the least it feels like there should have been some sort of vote of AOS members on whether to do a "slow approach" or the "rip-off the band-aid" approach that was actually implemented.

At the very least, I think the odds of getting any new non-common name changes to the checklist in 2024 are declining.

I had this thought as well. My immediate knee-jerk reaction when I heard the news was that this sounds like a desperate attempt to remain relevant.... here on the heels of Clements making some high-visibility taxonomic breaks with AOS.

What gives me pause are the statements from the ABA and eBird seemingly welcoming the changes, and by extension I think WGAC embracing "local names...."


However, I'm still overall inclined towards thinking this is still a sign of the decline in the AOS and these past 18 pages of forum talk will amount to little. If I may play Nostradumba$$ for a bit, I'll explain:

- Let's say that this effort is "successful" despite the baked-in difficulties of contention, public input, connection to a particular zeitgeist, and oh I almost forgot - large scale checklist changes. I'll let this be its own bullet.

- We are not necessarily or even actually left with replacement names, but instead "new" names. As others have pointed out, there is a significant difference from previous name change efforts, due to association with political identity, the scale of change, the contemporary march toward so-called standardization like never before, and whatnot. I think more than ever, this provides an incentive for people to want to "choose" their own names as a statement of political identity (or other reasons that they feel valid). People are already indicating this here and elsewhere. And frankly, it has happened forever - people still refuse to use "Bearded Reedling" or "Eurasian Wren." I wouldn't call them birders or ornithologists, but there are people who refuse to call a Turkey Vulture anything other than a (lowercase, of course) "buzzard." (note the period inside the quotation mark because they are all American people ;))

- I've often felt like a Cassandra on this topic until the past year or two, but birds, just like everything (biological or not), have multiple common English names. This is not anyone's opinion, this is a stone cold fact of etymology which could conclusively be argued in a high school term paper. The WGAC has been the first to poke its head up and acknowledge this fact, stating that the multiple common names will be considered valid and interchangeable in their system, based on (local or situational) propriety. This is more broadly an acknowledgement of the common sense that no English name will please everyone, and language speakers will react accordingly - as they have since language began.

- While I like the idea of standardized common names, especially for their value in citizen science and bridging the gap for "normal" people to appreciate science... this may be the beginning of the end of the idea for a truly uniform set of English common names. If the patronym effort is not enough to convince people that common names are not as important as we pretended, I'm not sure what it would take. If people utilize North American bird names as a tool for political identity (think of the throngs of new "birders" taking a stand on the Democrat and Republican bird names! Now THAT is inclusive!), then scientific journals will not want to touch these names for how distracting they would be. Maybe field guide authors will feel the same. We will join most of the other biological disciplines in utilizing scientific names as the primary communication method, leaving the "common" names for "common" purposes. I think WGAC, etc. will still have a role - taxonomically of course, but there will be some value in trying to police a single common name being used for two different taxa. You can draw your own conclusions if you like, but if this effort is successful, I believe this could be the death knell for common English names in ornithology (and for these delightful debates on common names!)
 
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There are around 20 or so Commissioners in charge of updating the rules
Can you provide more details? I have been annoyed for some time about why different taxonomies use different scientific names for birds - one that comes to mind is Anser cygnoides (IOC and Clements) and Anser cygnoid (BirdLife) - but when I was doing some mapping work, I discovered plenty more. Also your sill see notes published by taxonomic authorities that say 'use of XXXX has precedence over YYYY'. My original belief was that names were assigned by some authority, and could not be changed, but IOC, Clements and BirdLife appear to have a lot of leniency in making their own decisions.
 
And a rule like we have with UK postage stamps - you can't have a bird patronym unless you are dead already.
Hmmm... and philatelists are such a diverse lot! And don't all those stamps generally have a big picky of someone head in profile? - perhaps I should tippex out the profile of Queen Victoria's from my penny black collection.

I am being confrontational (and joking), but it is impossible to wipe out historic names and figures. Are we going to change all US bank notes, and change the name of Washington DC.

To change the name of a few birds (which most people have never heard of - and when most people would argue that having a bird named after you is not that great an honor in any case), seems the wrong end of the stick.
 
I think more than ever, this provides an incentive for people to want to "choose" their own names as a statement of political identity (or other reasons that they feel valid). People are already indicating this here and elsewhere.
This, to me, seems like the worst potential effect of the decision. Making a political statement with bird names reaches new heights of pettiness. And what's worse, those who don't wish to make birding political won't have a choice, because we all have to use names, and the one we choose will automatically place us on one side. Scientific names will work for scientific papers and the like, but mentioning a Leucophaeus pipixcan sighting in the field just won't fly, I'm afraid.
 
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... I feel perhaps an AOSS (American Ornithological Society of the South) is in order, inviting all AOS disillusioned members to join forces, and continue with board members who resigned over such a radical breach of AOS tradition. AOSS would be embraced by many from Hudson Bay to Chihuahua.

Sound like an ornithological confederacy.
This side of the pond too.
 
Forward the Red-neck Phalaropes! Incidentally, there's another really excellent area for bird name changes: all the birds weighed down with part of their scientific name because some person of limited horizons couldn't think of a good English word or portmanteau as the general part of their name: Yellow-bellied Hyliota is one from my own list that springs to mind.

John
I'm off to see a Picathartes next week!
 
I have seen both Kaufman and Sibley supporting this crazy process of de-naming patronymic birds.
That would be funny because those 2 guys are the only ones I have with patronymic books... The Sibley guide..., Kaufman field guide... but it isn't.
I would expect them to change their patronymic book names... Oh, wait, again, Do what I say, not what I do!.
 
This, to me, seems like the worst potential effect of the decision. Making a political statement with bird names reaches new heights of pettiness. And what's worse, those who don't wish to make birding political won't have a choice, because we all have to use names, and thus are forced to choose a side. Scientific names will work for scientific papers and the like, but mentioning a Leucophaeus pipixcan sighting in the field just won't fly, I'm afraid.
Emphasis mine. Very well said.

As to your last sentence, I think I disagree. The silver lining (for as long as it lasts, that is -- until the come for the Latin names, which they will) from this mess, for me at least, is the motivation to pivot to the scientific nomenclature entirely. It has been a background hobby anyway, because the names have a lovely lilt to them. Poecile atricapillus proves tactile pleasure in saying it. Try it!

My wife is a biologist with botanical leanings, so knowing the Latin is not optional for her. I have to admit that listening to her describe the plants she finds when we are out birding has an almost erotic vibe to it:

Her: "Oh look. Scrophulariaceae."

Me: "Say it again."

Her: "Scrophulariaceae."

Me: "Damn, I love you."
 
Making a political statement with bird names reaches new heights of pettiness.
Worse than this, you could be making an 'apparent' political statement without even knowing it - i.e. 'did you here that *****, he just said MacGillivray's Warbler!" [Not sure why I picked on MacGillivray, as like most people, I have absolutely no idea who he was ... and do not know his moral and ethical standards, or his political persuasion].
 
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Worse than this, you could be making an 'apparent' political statement without even knowing it - i.e. 'did you here that *****, he just said MacGillivray's Warbler!" [Not sure why I picked on MacGillivray, as like most people, I have absolutely know idea who he was ... and do not no his moral and ethical standards, or his political persuasion].
Which is proof, were it needed, that the names as they stand, are not the barrier to inclusivity bing claimed, it's actually a ridiculous viewpoint.
 
We went to Ghana for them and on that particular day at that site, we waited several hours. Rather tense by the end, to be honest. Then one appeared for several seconds. That was all. Best of luck!
Oh, not the impression I've been given, Ghana for me too, we'll see.
 
This whole situation will be reffered to in future history as 'The Great, ornithological schism' because that is what this is shaping up to be...............
 
Emphasis mine. Very well said.

As to your last sentence, I think I disagree. The silver lining (for as long as it lasts, that is -- until the come for the Latin names, which they will) from this mess, for me at least, is the motivation to pivot to the scientific nomenclature entirely. It has been a background hobby anyway, because the names have a lovely lilt to them. Poecile atricapillus proves tactile pleasure in saying it. Try it!

My wife is a biologist with botanical leanings, so knowing the Latin is not optional for her. I have to admit that listening to her describe the plants she finds when we are out birding has an almost erotic vibe to it:

Her: "Oh look. Scrophulariaceae."

Me: "Say it again."

Her: "Scrophulariaceae."

Me: "Damn, I love you."
I quite enjoy scientific names as well, but to use them to communicate with other birders I think would just result in blank stares more often than not.
 
I quite enjoy scientific names as well, but to use them to communicate with other birders I think would just result in blank stares more often than not.
I remember looking for Baer's Pochards in China (....on no another patronym) - anyway, the Chinese name for Ferruginous Duck is 'Bai Yan' Duck ('bai' for white and 'yan' for eye) but in the Beijing dialect this is said as 'Bai Yar' - you can guess the confusion! Latin names and a quick reference to field guides saved the day - although we didn't see any Baer's (or Ferruginous Ducks) [...at least on that occasion].
 
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