Nikon Venturer II Collimation (1 Viewer)

[has530]

I picked a pair of these up on the cheap and they always made me feel cross eyed. I checked using the sun method and sure enough they are out of collimation. I removed the retaining rings on the objectives and found no eccentric rings for collimation so I am assuming these may have tilt screws? Just wanted to ask if anyone has experience adjusting these before I go cutting off the nice vinyl leatherette in search of prism tilt screws.

 

[42za]

I would also like to know , as I have the same problem.
Thanks.

 

[WJC]

I picked a pair of these up on the cheap and they always made me feel cross eyed. I checked using the sun method and sure enough they are out of collimation. I removed the retaining rings on the objectives and found no eccentric rings for collimation so I am assuming these may have tilt screws? Just wanted to ask if anyone has experience adjusting these before I go cutting off the nice vinyl leatherette in search of prism tilt screws.

I picked a pair of these up on the cheap and they always made me feel cross eyed. I checked using the sun method and sure enough they are out of collimation. I removed the retaining rings on the objectives and found no eccentric rings for collimation so I am assuming these may have tilt screws? Just wanted to ask if anyone has experience adjusting these before I go cutting off the nice vinyl leatherette in search of prism tilt screws.

Don't go cutting into anything just yet. I'm preparing text and graphics for you, right now. 'Should be ready in 20 minutes or so.

 

[WJC]

I picked a pair of these up on the cheap and they always made me feel cross eyed. I checked using the sun method and sure enough they are out of collimation. I removed the retaining rings on the objectives and found no eccentric rings for collimation so I am assuming these may have tilt screws? Just wanted to ask if anyone has experience adjusting these before I go cutting off the nice vinyl leatherette in search of prism tilt screws.

On almost all prism-tilt instruments the screws are in the same locations. Knowing where they are is more than half the battle. The first image is of a Pentax PCF 7x50. The red circles illustrate the positions of the screws. On some instruments you just raise part of the covering and insert the screwdriver. On others you just poke a SMALL hole in the known position of the screw. I took off the rubber covering off this bino for illustration purposes. On this bino the screws are hex heads ... nice touch!

The second image is of the Swift 8.5x44 Audubon. The screw near the axle is different than most, being positioned at an angle under an easily accessible flap.

Finally, the 3-page graphic explains the difference between 3-axis collimation and conditional alignment and why it makes a big difference.

 

[WJC]

Mayday, Mayday ... I've given you BAD information! The pages are accurate, but the photos have nothing to do with your bino. It's a disposable instrument that Cory Suddarth and I used to refer to as ... "noklar on the half-shell." It is glued together. If the tech wasn't getting along with his girlfriend that day, it was REALLY glued together. I am so sorry for holding out hope. Yes, it can be collimated. But it's a situation in which LUCK plays a large part!

 

[has530]

Thank you for this info, yes they are cheap little plastic things but they certainly have nicer optics than any cheap little Chinese plastic compacts these days. Are you saying they likely don't have adjustment screws and my best bet is just a disassembly and reassembly and hope everything is held in the proper place? I was likely only planning on adjusting one side (as I can see one exit pupil is round and the other is slightly clipped) and see if I can just get conditional alignment for myself as these will only be used by me and live in my center counsel in the car. The info you posted is most informative for future reference as I will likely need it in the future given my current uptick in interest in tinkering with old binos. I did actually manage to achieve pretty good 3-axis collimation on a flea market pair last weekend (I think) using the "sun method" described here as the sun is the best collimated light source I have available to me. . Not sure if you've looked through and approve of that reference but they at least cite your coining of "conditional alignment". I have a quick further question about "3 axis collimation". The first two axes seem obvious to me (either left right or angle magnitude compared to the hinge axis depending on your preferred coordinate system) but what is the third? Is it the focal plane of the objective and adjusted via tweaking the vertical position of the retaining rings of the objective?
Thanks again,
Harrison

 

[WJC]

Thank you for this info, yes they are cheap little plastic things but they certainly have nicer optics than any cheap little Chinese plastic compacts these days. Are you saying they likely don't have adjustment screws and my best bet is just a disassembly and reassembly and hope everything is held in the proper place? I was likely only planning on adjusting one side (as I can see one exit pupil is round and the other is slightly clipped) and see if I can just get conditional alignment for myself as these will only be used by me and live in my center counsel in the car. The info you posted is most informative for future reference as I will likely need it in the future given my current uptick in interest in tinkering with old binos. I did actually manage to achieve pretty good 3-axis collimation on a flea market pair last weekend (I think) using the "sun method" described here as the sun is the best collimated light source I have available to me. . Not sure if you've looked through and approve of that reference but they at least cite your coining of "conditional alignment". I have a quick further question about "3 axis collimation". The first two axes seem obvious to me (either left right or angle magnitude compared to the hinge axis depending on your preferred coordinate system) but what is the third? Is it the focal plane of the objective and adjusted via tweaking the vertical position of the retaining rings of the objective?
Thanks again,
Harrison

That fellow who used my "Conditional Alignment" ... was me, at least in the attachment I sent. It was from my second book on binoculars, Understanding & Achieving 3-Axis Collimation. If you have the patience to use the Sun Method (Rafael is to be commended) you are much more patient than me. Rain or shine, I keep my sun in the garage! The THIRD Axis is the axle. Without taking it into consideration and making it part of the task ... a real collimation can't be achieved! I know the Internet is full of wannabes preaching how "easy" collimation is just by looking at a roof line or power pole. After trying to get people's attention through lectures, articles, and books, I have to wonder if these people have been under a rock for the last 46 years! But then, it's much easier to pontificate with OPINIONS that research with the science as your goal. And since 2012 my work has been in Proceedings the magazine of SPIE, the Society of Photo-optical Instrumentation Engineers. If you have further questions ... I'm certainly willing to help.

 

[has530]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the third axis is the axel. Do you just mean that the two optical axes must not only be parallel to each other, but also the central hinge (which is hopefully fixed)? Yes it took some patience out in the sun constantly adjusting my setup as the earth spins, but I have more patience than I do money and space for a spiffy machine like yours! As for the originally stated venturers... were you meaning to say it is unlikely they have any external adjustment mechanism and I may as well go straight into cracking them open?

 

[John A Roberts]

Detailed Explanation of 3-Axis Collimation

Bill has previously provided a free version of the paper that he presented in 2012 to SPIE (the international society for optics and photonics),
see post #9 at: How are roofs colimated?

The images and captions make clear the difference between conditional alignment and 3-axis collimation (as does the text in greater detail),
and the step by step procedure for the latter is explained from page 16.


John

 

[WJC]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the third axis is the axel. Do you just mean that the two optical axes must not only be parallel to each other, but also the central hinge (which is hopefully fixed)? Yes it took some patience out in the sun constantly adjusting my setup as the earth spins, but I have more patience than I do money and space for a spiffy machine like yours! As for the originally stated venturers... were you meaning to say it is unlikely they have any external adjustment mechanism and I may as well go straight into cracking them open?

"I'm not sure I understand ..." "I'm not sure I understand!!!"

Well then, please join the many long-time professionals in binocular repair and sales who ALSO don't understand—note the title of the article. People can bellyache about chromatic aberration, astigmatism, curvature of field, and the like, but the only anomaly they can DO anything about—other than buying a new instrument—is alignment. Thus, it seems to me they should want to know more about the subject than that erroneous, first-grade garbage plastered all over the Internet. Please see the attachment ... 'Did it just for you. If you have more questions ... fire away! As G. Dallas Hanna said in his 1953 article for ATM #3: "The axle is the heart of a binocular."

 

[John A Roberts]

More on 3-Axis Collimation

Another detailed description of 3-axis collimation along with images can be found in the Ordnance Maintenance Manual TM 9-1580 from 1953 *
It's for use by the US Army and US Air Force, and covers the M3 through M17A1 binoculars, along with the M65 telescope (a periscope style binoviewer).

You can read an introduction from page 32, and the process in detail from page 114.

PDF versions can be found at:
https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-1580.pdf
https://radionerds.com/images/1/1a/TM_9-1580_BINOCULARS_1953.pdf
The former has clearer text, while the latter has clearer images.

* And it's still current! See: Army Publishing Directorate


John

 

[has530]

Detailed Explanation of 3-Axis Collimation

Bill has previously provided a free version of the paper that he presented in 2012 to SPIE (the international society for optics and photonics),
see post #9 at: How are roofs colimated?

The images and captions make clear the difference between conditional alignment and 3-axis collimation (as does the text in greater detail),
and the step by step procedure for the latter is explained from page 16.


John

Great thank you for this! It was a great read and I think I understand it now. I will check out the other links you just sent later tonight.

"I'm not sure I understand ..." "I'm not sure I understand!!!"

Well then, please join the many long-time professionals in binocular repair and sales who ALSO don't understand—note the title of the article. People can bellyache about chromatic aberration, astigmatism, curvature of field, and the like, but the only anomaly they can DO anything about—other than buying a new instrument—is alignment. Thus, it seems to me they should want to know more about the subject than that erroneous, first-grade garbage plastered all over the Internet. Please see the attachment ... 'Did it just for you. If you have more questions ... fire away! As G. Dallas Hanna said in his 1953 article for ATM #3: "The axle is the heart of a binocular."

I think I am getting it now. Certainly more reading is in order and more hands on time inside binos! I agree the lack of technical understanding in "professionals" is frustrating. I got a new pair of binos that were pretty clearly out of collimation so I sent them in under warranty. I was surprised to get the same pair back saying they were "within spec". I again sent them back saying no they aren't and gave them a rough estimate of the error (just estimated using relaxed vision and stars, well of 100 arcmin) and they then sent me a completely different set of binoculars (worth twice as much) with with a hinge with horizontal play! I sent those back and got yet another replacement which I checked out to ensure it was in good working order and promptly sold. Makes me wonder who is working in the customer service departments! At least they paid all the shipping so it was free for me and I ended up getting my money back and then some.

As for the original venturers this thread was about... I have fixed them up well enough to be usable again! The good old take them apart and put them back together incrementally did the trick.

 

[HC1984]

Great thank you for this! It was a great read and I think I understand it now. I will check out the other links you just sent later tonight.

I think I am getting it now. Certainly more reading is in order and more hands on time inside binos! I agree the lack of technical understanding in "professionals" is frustrating. I got a new pair of binos that were pretty clearly out of collimation so I sent them in under warranty. I was surprised to get the same pair back saying they were "within spec". I again sent them back saying no they aren't and gave them a rough estimate of the error (just estimated using relaxed vision and stars, well of 100 arcmin) and they then sent me a completely different set of binoculars (worth twice as much) with with a hinge with horizontal play! I sent those back and got yet another replacement which I checked out to ensure it was in good working order and promptly sold. Makes me wonder who is working in the customer service departments! At least they paid all the shipping so it was free for me and I ended up getting my money back and then some.

As for the original venturers this thread was about... I have fixed them up well enough to be usable again! The good old take them apart and put them back together incrementally did the trick.

Glad you got your Venturers sorted.

I'm currently sitting with the same problem - got them yesterday, gave them a good clean (some of the paint came off the prism cover - nearly lost it) and then let them slip out of my hand. SMH.

I'd be extremely happy to know how you went about fixing them and where the screws are located - don't want to lift the vinyl just yet...

 

[has530]

Glad you got your Venturers sorted.

I'm currently sitting with the same problem - got them yesterday, gave them a good clean (some of the paint came off the prism cover - nearly lost it) and then let them slip out of my hand. SMH.

I'd be extremely happy to know how you went about fixing them and where the screws are located - don't want to lift the vinyl just yet...

The easiest way to get in was through the eyepieces. They both screw out and from there you can get to the prisms. That's probably the best way to get started.

 

[HC1984]

The easiest way to get in was through the eyepieces. They both screw out and from there you can get to the prisms. That's probably the best way to get started.

Fantastic!
That really helps, thanks!

Did you take apart both barrels, or just the one barrel to remedy the problem?

 

[has530]

I opened both sides but could see the left rear prism was askew so I just took it out, cleaned everything, and put it back and everything was good. Interestingly I didn't see any collimation screws at all so maybe i was just lucky (or there was something further upstream the optical path).

 

[HC1984]

I opened both sides but could see the left rear prism was askew so I just took it out, cleaned everything, and put it back and everything was good. Interestingly I didn't see any collimation screws at all so maybe i was just lucky (or there was something further upstream the optical path).

Nice one! Thanks for all of the info!