• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Search results

thxpress_search_the_forum Search Opus
  1. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Against my better judgement, I'm weighing in here, though let me start by saying my primary intent here is not addressing Andy specifically, but our forum communication in general. I joke a lot, both here and elsewhere in written form - and I've been warned time and again that my tone, intent...
  2. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I'll keep mentioning this until they get around to kicking me off the forum, but the reality is that birds DO have multiple names and a lot of our anguish here stems from pretending that they don't, and/or pretending that common names should do the job of the scientific names. One of the...
  3. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    It needs to be kept in mind that there is an ornithological definition of North America (per the ABA and common usage of others) and a geographical definition. It could just as easily be said that a definition of North America that includes Panama is "incorrect" in the context of a birding...
  4. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I think you and I are on a different pages. You seem to be arguing the outcomes of a potential case, and I don't dispute your interpretations. I also don't dispute that there are differences with past cases - but that leads directly to my point. My concern is that its something someone will...
  5. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I would suggest doing some research if you are interested - two of my examples (Masterpiece Cakeshop v Colorado Civil Rights Commission) and Kim Davis (the County Clerk in Kentucky) were both workplace-related cases. There are other examples (both "religious" and not - the motivations in many...
  6. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Ha! - yes, the First, thank you. Let's hope that the Second Amendment doesn't become involved in the bird names argument! Note that I used a publication only as an example, and only because there was a question about field guides. The law says: "The division shall use the English-language...
  7. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    You can see my thoughts above referring to the goshawk. You do make a good point about Western Flycatcher using one interpretation of the law - and I'll use this as an opportunity to take another potshot at it. The law says: "The division shall use the English-language name assigned to a...
  8. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I agree that is the likely intent. However, Accipiter (gentilis) atricapillus is not exactly a "new" taxon - it existed before 2020 and its name was Northern Goshawk. The point is taken that Accipiter atricapillus is a current species that had no English name prior to 2020, but again the law...
  9. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    To be clear, the law applies only to "The division" which refers to the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources. This is not really evident from this snippet of law, but if someone were to read the whole section, then "The division" would be defined as such. So the law only has jurisdiction over...
  10. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    The AOS stopped officially naming subspecies decades ago, and while they have stated for years that they want to get back to defining subspecies (not necessarily naming them), they have instead prioritized other matters (if I may be a bit cheeky!) The short answer is, no - no "nationally...
  11. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Its important to note that this is a law that only applies to state agencies in Utah - so to be clear there would only be the loosest relevance to birds in the U.K. That said, to get to the spirit of your question - the law leaves a bit to interpretation. The bit that says "the division may...
  12. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Here is a link to the state code: https://le.utah.gov/~2024/bills/static/HB0382.html You can do a word search for the section of law: 23A-12-102 or the title "Naming Conventions for Birds" or just scroll down to line 981
  13. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    This is an issue that goes well beyond what the bird forum can really address. Your perspective would be called "Libertarian" here in the U.S. (and I recognize that term does not mean the same thing in every country), but very broadly it means that the role of the government should be limited...
  14. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Absolutely agreed that this was entirely predictable (even if I'm saying so myself!) and that more consequences and counter-consequences are likely to come. It will be difficult to get the bird names genie back into the ornithological society bottle - now that other people feel the issue...
  15. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I commend you for speaking with the rep, and I'm certain they defended their decision in as professional a manner as possible. But to an outsider, the law looks far more sloppy than a scientist or someone with a biology background should be putting out: 988 (2) (a) The division shall use the...
  16. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Correct, just as in this specific case that the AOS says they are adopting name changes. Why try to reverse one and pretend the other is set in stone?
  17. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I certainly understand - and I don't think the entirety of the "opposition efforts" should fall on your shoulders. But I do think that if this issue is as important as both sides claim it is, then multiple efforts from multiple angles should be pursued... and for a multitude of reasons that...
  18. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    It is incorrect to state that the ABA and eBird are not in charge of English names. As mentioned above, eBird represents the Clements list. Clements differs from AOS currently and has in the past. For example, Clements currently recognizes Western Cattle Egret while AOS does not; there was a...
  19. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I'm seeing from the press release that this is very AOS-focused - and admittedly its been a few months since I've reviewed the petition so I'm guessing the same could be said about it. I agree that AOS is first and foremost, but they aren't the only stakeholders with naming authority - is there...
  20. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    If these were "decreed" in the 1800s and 1900s, how do you say "Palila," "Iiwi" or "Apapane" in English?
  21. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    I can only speak for myself, but personally I feel like what we have going on right now is a good system. We have one thread in taxonomy and another in Birds & Birding. I think that's not too much but also caters to the two main "categories" of interest (meaning the general birders, and the...
  22. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Indeed - the Birding thread is titled "Do you agree..." and this thread title is regarding the petition. In the big picture, both of these are about opinions. I think it unfair to ask that neither of these include the reporting of information (e.g. the existence of the Ichthyology discussion -...
  23. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    Excellent points - and I see what you did there with the fresh entries into the English language... ;) To your point #3 I would have to add that social analysis writ large needs to be added. One concern that I believe has not been well discussed or taken seriously: if this is successful - then...
  24. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    If expertise confers no authority, I don't see why either ornithologists nor etymologists nor old hairy birders would be any different from one another. However, it must be acknowledged that while you may not give a stuff about expertise, a great number of people do - hence the debate, and also...
  25. Kirk Roth

    Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

    This gets problematic. With all due respect to the ornithologists, scientists, etc. these are the experts on the biology or identification of the birds, most of whom will have at best a secondary interest in the history of these names. Remember that this is not a debate about birds - not even...
Back
Top