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  1. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    N. borealis as sibling to N. americanus is certainly an interesting result.
  2. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    Yes, you do remember correctly. It was dated at c. 28 mya in the first incarnation, and c. 37 mya in the new version.
  3. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    Interesting. There are significant differences between the cladograms - including much of what was identified as 'unusual' in this very thread. For example: Rhinoptilus group of coursers is once again monophyletic asiatica is back within Eupoda, sibling to orientalis Oystercatchers divided...
  4. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    I don't disagree with what you are saying - if the genetics are correct, there's some serious morphological conservatism going on in this group, though some of the less convincing details may be refined with more studies. But, for me, a broad Calidris is too heterogeneous and something as...
  5. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    Can the maintenance of a single genus which includes Ruff, Surfbird, Curlew Sandpiper, Buff-breasted Sandpiper and Spoon-billed Sandpiper, amongst other disparate forms, really be justified by arguments of morphological similarity? I'm similarly unpersuaded by arguments for a broad Calidris in...
  6. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    Thank you for detailed reply to people's comments. I certainly wasn't holding you accountable for a "One True phylogeny" - just thought there were a few interesting talking points. My oystercatcher comment based on: Senfeld et al. (2019) Taxonomic status of the extinct Canary Islands...
  7. andrew147

    Gruiformes and Charadriiformes

    Mostly fits well with other divergence time estimates for Charadriiformes. Thick-knees, plovers, sandpipers, coursers and auks always show up as comprising lots of very old lineages. I agree that some of the details are odd. Oystercatchers are convincingly shown elsewhere to constitute an Old...
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