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Latest IOC Diary Updates
I meant that my attempt to transliterate the correct spelling into something that native english speakers might pronounce closer to correctly, at least as I understand it with my feeble command of Bahasa Indonesia, would be shitty :)- pbjosh
- Post #2,467
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
This will be a shitty attempt at transliteration (you can find pronunciation vids on youtube I'm certain) but roughly keh-CHEEL or kuh-CHEEL and beh-SAR or buh-SAR is what those words have sounded like to me in my rough and tumble exposure to Bahasa Indonesia / Indonesian / Malaysian whatever...- pbjosh
- Post #2,460
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
That's what I thought too, originally. Now looking at avibase again I see that IOC has had it as Rusty-breasted Cuckoo for a long long while. I think some / a lot of my confusion here came from iGT showing Clements taxonomy if you're not logged in, which seems bizarre. Anyways sorry for the...- pbjosh
- Post #2,440
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Cheers James! Looks like IOC has also only recently split "Brush" into Sunda Brush / Australian Brush as ie, iGT and Avibase and the like don't reflect that change. I thought that had been split for some time. There are references in the diary/splits pages there to the renaming from...- pbjosh
- Post #2,434
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
It will be interesting to see how those splits / any reshuffling of subspecies works out in that quite messy complex. If I recall correctly / have things straight, IOC and Clements now have "Moluccan Cuckoo" C aeruginosus defined the same? But Clements is way behind in even recognizing the split...- pbjosh
- Post #2,425
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
@Mysticete Indeed that remains to be seen. As well, and directly related, it remains to be seen how much eBird/Clements follow NACC/SACC after the fact. By following the WGAC they are expressly breaking with those two committees, at least in the short term. When novel taxonomic issues with new...- pbjosh
- Post #2,396
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
None of these should be a surprise, they've been long mooted. They at least seem to be common sense and I don't know of anything that contraindicates any of these three. The more I watch the WGAC proceedings and see the results, the more that I realize how much I disagree with "status quo is...- pbjosh
- Post #2,393
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Perhaps my comment could have been clearer but I meant to say that it's not perfectly applied anywhere :)- pbjosh
- Post #2,359
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
At least the N American authorities / folks that be try to define hyphens as implying monophyletic groups. So Night Herons will cease to be Night-Herons if a recent NACC proposal passes, in order to communicate that they're not each others' closest relatives. I'm ok with this logic, as it helps...- pbjosh
- Post #2,357
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
A mild shame those two amazing birds are not in their own genus but it certainly makes sense that they are part of Chiroxiphia. And they are still amazing.- pbjosh
- Post #2,309
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
(This is said tongue in cheek, don't take too much offense) - There's another benefit of staying with simply "Goshawk" and "Knot" - you can be taken by surprise when you're the last to find out about taxonomy changes! Does Sycthebill have an option for explicitly British names / short form...- pbjosh
- Post #2,197
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Split in IOC 13.2 and in eBird/Clements as of this year, thus the name changes that are showing up in everyone's listing software / websites and will be in future field guides but that won't change the fact that everyone just calls their local bird a "Goshawk" and omits American or Eurasian just...- pbjosh
- Post #2,193
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Maybe I miss some of the intricacies of what's going on there... Northern Goshawk is changing to American vs Eurasian for birders everywhere but I seriously doubt anyone will bat an eye or do anything other than just keep calling it Goshawk. I do agree with the desires to maintain local names...- pbjosh
- Post #2,191
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Maybe I'm missing something. No one is forcing birders to say "Red" before saying "Knot" in the UK. I don't see a big hurdle to clear to read a web page or a field guide and see "Red Knot" and know that it is what you call "Knot" and if there is any doubt the range map clears it up and perhaps a...- pbjosh
- Post #2,189
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
I find it completely normal and natural for people to use shorter versions of names when there are no expected confusion species. Birding in California or Argentina someone can very reasonably say Condor without inviting confusion or sounding like they're particularly doing anything wrong. This...- pbjosh
- Post #2,162
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Go birding in Africa and people will say “what?” like when I pronounced it as if it were a Spanish word the first time I was in Africa :) Kee-lee-ah or kee-lee-uh is more or less how I hear locals pronounce it.- pbjosh
- Post #2,103
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Indeed and a shocking number of native speakers just glaze over or deny this somehow. lead and lead are pronounced differently and mean different things, but led is pronounced like the one that doesn’t mean the present tense of led and yet is the past tense of the one that is pronounced...- pbjosh
- Post #2,102
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
ding ding ding :) Again I am just playing around with names that people commonly either mispronounce or argue/discuss how to pronounce. I don’t get too bothered about it. I don’t expect non Portuguese speakers to pronounce Trindade correctly nor do I expect a North American or European on their...- pbjosh
- Post #2,100
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Just having fun trying to spell out a couple of the pronunciations I’ve heard :)- pbjosh
- Post #2,099
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Yet we all manage to understand each other with these words so it doesn’t matter. I’m more pedantic about native speakers misusing things that lead to genuine misunderstandings in meaningful conversations than to useless arguments about kay-LAY-uh vs KEE-lee-uh or worse TRO-gon vs tro-GUN.- pbjosh
- Post #2,085
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Certainly in Spanish it would be an accented syllable in the middle as you say. Whether the last syllable sounds more “kay” or “keh” or “kee” probably is regionally / accent dependent. But ultimately a pissing match about how to pronounce it in Spanish is pretty useless as it is certainly a...- pbjosh
- Post #2,084
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
I see and raise you a “sih-stick-uh-luh”- pbjosh
- Post #2,083
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
Also - siss tuh coh luh 🤣🤣- pbjosh
- Post #2,077
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
I have mostly ever heard “Caw-see-Kay” or a similar three syllable version harder initial A like in Kansas or “can.” Of course it is a Spanish word for “chief” or similar and the Spanish pronunciation can be aproximated in English as similar to my first pronunciations - “caw SEE Kay” but even...- pbjosh
- Post #2,076
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature
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Latest IOC Diary Updates
I commented and voted on the Trogon proposals and I agree that the names are a mess, they are impossible to remember (I don’t know anyone who actually remembers all the Trogon names to be honest), and that it’s super hard to come up with good names. I just think that this set of names really...- pbjosh
- Post #1,941
- Forum: Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature