Appreciate Binocular Advice for Nonprofit Outdoor & Nature Program (1 Viewer)

I'm helping a new nonprofit outdoor program choose and acquire their first binoculars for their outdoor and nature and science programs, which will include bird and nature-watching and ecological monitoring in local parks and state parks and along coastline on walks, hikes and cycling trips, and also on paddle trips (canoeing). The org provides free programs for underserved schools, youth groups and communities as well as some paid programs for people and groups that can afford them to support the free programs.

One approach is to buy budget binoculars at a discount directly from a manufacturer, such as a $100-200 retail pair at a discount; and another approach would be to buy budget binoculars that retail for $50-60, from a budget brand like Tasco. I'm thinking that most participants, particularly people totally new to birding, will likely not be able to notice a big difference between a good-value budget binocular in the $50-100 or $100-200 range and a higher quality $300-500 binocular.

I have a friend who is an outdoor educator who has gone with the latter approach ($50 Tascos), and at that price point if a pair develops a problem it's inexpensive to replace. I'm guessing that at the $100-200 price point there isn't much warranty support and certainly not repair and replace support, but not sure.

A few questions:
1) Which approach would you suggest and why? Extreme budget $50-70 binoculars, or, budget $100-200 or $200-300 at a discount?
2) Would you suggest waterproof binoculars and is it possible to find waterproof binoculars in the $50-70 and $100-200 range?
3) What do you think about size? Thinking 8 x 42 would be best for better light gathering in varied conditions and since it's a common size there may be more models available and perhaps better deals to be had - what do you think? Only other size considered would be 8 x 30 or 8 x 25 which will be less bright in early morning and early evening, but offer weight saving and more compact build for easier carrying.
4) Sincerely appreciate recommendations for specific brands and models of binoculars in different price ranges that could work well.

I'm thinking that most participants, particularly people totally new to birding, will likely not be able to notice a big difference between a good-value budget binocular in the $50-100 or $100-200 range and a higher quality $300-500 binocular

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if budget really is an issue I'd go for naked-eye nature observing.
nothing worse than $50 binoculars where image is blurry and no field of view
$100 range, out of 5 pairs only one you can keep, the rest is so badly out of alignment
people new to this will assume bins are not for them
don't let people buy stuff that's at least decent

waterproof binoculars? yes it's useful especially in tropical climates but adds to the cost of a pair.
if on a real tight budget, favour a good rainguard and learn to keep you bins in your jacket
most folks did this before waterproof bins were available

cheers
zp*

ZeNiTh-PbArM said:

if budget really is an issue I'd go for naked-eye nature observing.
nothing worse than $50 binoculars where image is blurry and no field of view
$100 range, out of 5 pairs only one you can keep, the rest is so badly out of alignment
people new to this will assume bins are not for them
don't let people buy stuff that's at least decent

waterproof binoculars? yes it's useful especially in tropical climates but adds to the cost of a pair.
if on a real tight budget, favour a good rainguard and learn to keep you bins in your jacket
most folks did this before waterproof bins were available

cheers
zp*

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Appreciate your advice, especially regarding waterproofness. To be clear, I did not recommend $50-100 binoculars - I asked for recommendations either way, from $50-70 retail binoculars to $100-200 retail or to even a little more expensive with a discount (there are good manufacturers that offer discounts to nonprofits). For example, there are decent bins with a good reputation and warranty to be had at $200-250 - with a nonprofit and quantity discount this can bring the price down to below $200/pair for the org. At this stage the org will not consider higher end binoculars that would cost the org more than $250/pair after a nonprofit and quantity discount. If there are binoculars you'd recommend that retail for $200-275, the would probably still make the cut after a manufacturer discount.

I have found that the Nikon Aculon or Nikon Action VII have 8.5 out of ten that are in good collimation.

If somewhere like Lidl have a pile of 10x50 binoculars for £25 or £20, one only has to go through each one checking collimation and discard the rest. One may find 5 good binoculars.

I know birdforum hates zoom binoculars but I bought six 10-24x50 for £12 each from the Daily Mail offer with an extra £1 full return warranty. 4 were in good alignment. I returned by free collect the next day the two faulty ones which were immediately replaced and both were in good alignment.
So I got 6 binoculars for about £73.
They were used at the sweet spot of 14x50 and the zoom not used.
The same approach may be used if 10x50s are offered.

I bought 30 6x18 binoculars waterproof, independent focus for £7.50 each. 10 were good, 10 acceptable and ten rubbish, but even the rubbish ones could be cut in half to give usable monoculars with focus.

So there ae two viable approaches.
Buy bulk Nikon Aculons maybe 7x35, and accept the few faulty ones. Or immediately return the faulty ones for replacement.
There is I suppose one year warranty. except for dropping out of collimation.

Or bulk £20 binoculars and return all the faulty ones.
Probably 10x50s usually offered.

I also went through about twenty 10x25 binoculars in a charity shop and bought the best five or six for £2 each.

I know that Opticron has looked favourably at bulk purchase for this kind of situation, at least in the U.K.

Regards,
B.

I see that Nikon Aculon 7x35s are available at £81 or about $100.
Forget about waterproofness unless in a humid jungle environment.
Return any faulty units immediately for replacement or return of money.

Maybe the Nikon 7x35 EX are waterproof.

Regards,
B.

Kowa YFii 6x30 - cheap, waterproof, much brighter and sharper than you’d expect for the price, user friendly, ok for faces of all sizes.

Thank you @Binastro, @Dr. K and @ZeNiTh-PbArM. It won't be practical to inspect many pairs of very cheap binoculars for one good one and out of many, so would prefer to stick with reputable brands and they can inspect the binoculars that come in, which should hopefully have a low dud rate.

I've heard good things about Kowa, Celestron, Opticron, Vortex and I personally have a Nikon Monarch 7 8 x 30 which I'm very happy with but not familiar with their Aculon line.

What do you think about size? I'm familiar with the viewing locations and subjects, bird, mammal, reptile and amphibian, and 8X would be best. I'm thinking the bins should be 8 x 42 for good light gathering and because this is a very common size there should be many models available and perhaps better deals to be had. But perhaps you'd suggest 8 x25 or 30 for portability.

Laughing Kookaburra said:

Thank you @Binastro, @Dr. K and @ZeNiTh-PbArM. It won't be practical to inspect many pairs of very cheap binoculars for one good one and out of many, so would prefer to stick with reputable brands and they can inspect the binoculars that come in, which should hopefully have a low dud rate.

I've heard good things about Kowa, Opticron and Vortex and I personally have a Nikon Monarch 7 8 x 30 which I'm very happy with but not familiar with their Aculon line. I'm thinking the bins should be 8 x 42 for good light gathering and because this is a very common size there should be many models available and perhaps better deals to be had - what do you think?

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I think 8x42 is a lot of binocular for a kid, and even among adults, 32mm is the trend in the market, I’m told, due to lighter weight. The kowas I recommend use porro prisms, meaning they are brighter and often better image quality than roof prism models of comparable price. They also come in 8x, but I recommended 6x for the extra bright view and easy eye placement, not to mention the wider perspective, all especially beneficial to youth and older folks who may lack the steadiness, but really add to the general user friendliness for any non-experts. Of course, you could get a mix of 6x and 8x models.

I would probably look at the Kowa's - they're pretty robust and optically punch above their price point. I imagine one consideration is whether these can be bought at a discount though.

Another advantage to a Porro model like Kowa YF or Opticron Savannah is being too big to walk away easily in someone's pocket.

Binastro said:

Maybe the Nikon 7x35 EX are waterproof.

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Yes (submergible max 1 meter for 5 mins, according to Nikon).

Thanks Canip,

My bath isn't that deep.

Regards,
B.

Hmmm ….. maybe you can try 0.5 meters for 10 minutes then?

I have a few 20-30 euros binoculars and really enjoy using them. However, they have QC issues, warranty issues, waterproof issues as well as sometimes they do come with different specs compared to the specs mentioned on the product webpage or the online platform. I think the best budget range is 100-200 euros range. I have the same opinion as @Dr. K and recommend buying Kowa YFii 6x30 or 8x30 or a mix. They are waterproof and come from a reputed brand so claiming the warranty would not cause any problems. If you can go for the 200-300 euros range, Vortex Diamondback HD 8x32 or Monarch 7 8x30 would be better choices.

Opticron Adventurer T WP porro in 8x32 might be another option to look at.
It's also sold as Celestron "Ultima" sometimes. I bought mine for around 60€ but that was an Amazon discount.
Pretty nice for that price.

Please call me, 516-217-1000, or PM me. I have reached out to our suppliers to get you some binocular

^^^ WTG Doug!

The Vortex Bantam 6.5x32 is about $70.

Laughing Kookaburra said:

Appreciate your advice, especially regarding waterproofness. To be clear, I did not recommend $50-100 binoculars - I asked for recommendations either way, from $50-70 retail binoculars to $100-200 retail or to even a little more expensive with a discount (there are good manufacturers that offer discounts to nonprofits). For example, there are decent bins with a good reputation and warranty to be had at $200-250 - with a nonprofit and quantity discount this can bring the price down to below $200/pair for the org. At this stage the org will not consider higher end binoculars that would cost the org more than $250/pair after a nonprofit and quantity discount. If there are binoculars you'd recommend that retail for $200-275, the would probably still make the cut after a manufacturer discount.

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Maybe Oberwerk would give you a bulk discount from $350 to your stated limit of $275. Their 8x42 ed series are well liked by many.


I would choose better binoculars for your program than budget ones because you want the views to be memorable and the people to be engaged with what theyre doing. Grabbing budget bins could have the opposite effect which really goes against the point of the program. That said, I tried a $20 reverse porro bin off amazon a while back and it was surprisingly decent for what it cost...

Also I'm partial to porros so something like the nikon extreme 7x35 or kowa yf may be the way to go.

Also one more thing. You said the main users of these will be youths. 42mm bins might be too big. I would consider something smaller albeit 32mm roofs are sometimes known for having finicky eye placement.