Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
One of his friends posted that Jon's last tick, was Jamaican Lizard Cuckoo.
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Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pbjosh
- Start date
Mike Hunter
Well-known member
What this unfortunate experience has shown is the importance of data openness and scrutiny.
With this in mind iGoTerra has developed an alternative to Surfbirds for birders across the world to log their world (and regional) lists, under their 'Open Ranking' initiative.
It's entirely FREE, just create an account, add two numbers (birds seen and heard only) and save to be entered in the Open Ranking listing.
Visit iGoTerra for more details or type igoterra into your search engine.
Best regards
Mike
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WACCOE
Marching on Together
Am I right in thinking it's free just for the basic package? I can no longer add new species to my World list stuck at 1447
Asking me for a yearly subscription.
Cheers Dave.
Steve Lister
Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.
I have most of my full lists on the excellent BUBO Listing site which has been going a good few years now but I suppose could suffer problems just like any other site. It is purely a listing site for anyone who does not know it, and well worth a look. The administrators keep up with taxonomic changes and alert you to what you need to change with each new IOC version etc.
I also have most, but not all, of my records on eBird but this is not primarily designed as a listing site even though it does a good job of maintaining lists based on the records you enter. I know that Peter Kaestner is a big eBird user - for some reason his current eBird list is quite a way below his 10,000 total. But there again mine is about 900 short of my actual total due to the fact that I have not got round to entering birds seen on many of my early trips as my field notes were not good enough to enter the accurate bird lists that eBird expects.
I also have most, but not all, of my records on eBird but this is not primarily designed as a listing site even though it does a good job of maintaining lists based on the records you enter. I know that Peter Kaestner is a big eBird user - for some reason his current eBird list is quite a way below his 10,000 total. But there again mine is about 900 short of my actual total due to the fact that I have not got round to entering birds seen on many of my early trips as my field notes were not good enough to enter the accurate bird lists that eBird expects.
Mike Hunter
Well-known member
Hi Dave
You are limited to 400 species under the 'basic' package (iGoTerra) though iGoTerra offers free membership for a limited period which means you can exceed this species number. This is why your world list is stuck.
You can overwrite your world list under the Open Ranking initiative (iGoTerra) for free. As you already have an account it's really easy to do.
Even better, by opting for a subscription ($42 a year for standard membership) you can add an unlimited number of observations and your world and other lists will be automatically updated. Plus, periodic taxonomic updates (splits and lumps) are automatically applied so you can be assured your lists will always be accurate and up-to-date.
Membership benefits are explained here: iGoTerra
If you use eBird then this article explains the additional and complementary benefits of iGoTerra
Hope this helps.
Mike
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Mike Hunter
Well-known member
Hi Steve - eBird uses Clements' taxonomy which has 174 fewer extant species than IOC. Peter has achieved the epic and remarkable 10,000 feat on the basis of IOC taxonomy (one of many reasons Peter uses iGoTerra), but as you identify has a little way to go to using Clements.
I agree Bubo Listing does a good job for birders wanting a basic approach to controlling their lists. No criticism implied - as Bubo is free and the developers do a great job - but for me Bubo has two main limitations:
1. A loss of data and sighting information when birds are lumped; and
2. One observation may require updates across several lists (e.g. a Canvasback in Essex would needed to be added separately to Essex, England, United Kingdom, Europe and Western Palearctic - assuming you kept all these lists).
Hope this brief explanation helps.
Mike
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Steve Lister
Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.
Hi Mike - I suspected that might be the reason for the eBird shortfall which I think is 160 species - looks about right as a proportion of the 174.
As for having to make multiple additions of a species onto BUBO lists, the entry template makes this easy enough by having the option to add to multiple lists - you just have to highlight them on your list of lists.
And you missed Eurasia out of your potential Canvasback lists - one I started when I used to submit my lists to the ABA listing supplement. I try to live up to my name!
As for having to make multiple additions of a species onto BUBO lists, the entry template makes this easy enough by having the option to add to multiple lists - you just have to highlight them on your list of lists.
And you missed Eurasia out of your potential Canvasback lists - one I started when I used to submit my lists to the ABA listing supplement. I try to live up to my name!
kb57
Well-known member
Just looked at the iGoTerra Open Ranking page - I presume the people listed in blue italics are those newly taking advantage of the free service? Seems like a smart move to open it up, in terms of bringing in a higher proportion of world listers and making the rankings more competitive (if that's what you're into 
).
And while Peter Kaestner's 10,000 record is certainly impressive, IMHO he's going to hit an even more impressive target when he sees his next 2 species, as he's currently on 9998 seen. It must represent a huge amount of actual extra effort involved in the field to only have 6 heard-only.
).And while Peter Kaestner's 10,000 record is certainly impressive, IMHO he's going to hit an even more impressive target when he sees his next 2 species, as he's currently on 9998 seen. It must represent a huge amount of actual extra effort involved in the field to only have 6 heard-only.
The main benefit of igoterra over bubo (which I like) is that it does mammals insects and plants too. I know bubo is going in that direction with its pan species listing options but being able pre-trip to generate realistic lifer targets for each type of animal and remove vagrant species from the national lists
Mike Hunter
Well-known member
Thanks Steve
I wasn't aware of Bubo's multiple entry template - will try that when a Canvasback turns up in my neck of the woods
Best regards
Mike
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
And a huge amount of frustration (speaking from personal experience).
lgonz1008
Well-known member
I think it just comes down to the idea that it is/was birdwatching, only in the recent decades did it become birding and was bird calls and recording becoming as popular as IDs by sight and photos.
I'm stuck with that mindset myself, at least for the lifer, even when in reality I have a couple of rails, tinamous and night birds that would be in the lifelist otherwise.
You could argue that if you can hear it, then it's good enough, and I do that for my mammal list (having been woken up by Tree Hyrax multiple times but never seeing one ensured that for me). But there's also a fine line of what birds feel right to count, even if heard only, for example I agree that something like a Screaming Piha is a quintessential example of why heard-only should apply, but if you tell me to do the same for say a Cassowary or a type of Heron, I'd see it as a big pill to swallow.
At the end of the day, it all goes case by case, I keep my heard onlys in a list too, that way when I retire from traveling, well into the future, if I still miss some of these birds, I can add them or I can just put extra focus when visiting their range again.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
While I am happy to acknowledge that there are people for whom there is no choice but to count heard only birds the fact is if you just hear something you could be listening to another birder playing a call whereas if you see the bird it's unarguable. The two are not, with the best will in the world, equal.
John
John
opisska
rabid twitcher
Funny that you mention Tree Hyraxes! I have actually seen three different species in the wild, but visually they are basically identical, so without hearing the vastly different calls, the ID would be just based on range, which I find unsatisfactory. But the story is similar with many birds, where sound is the best ID mark - and I am saying this as someone who has a very short "heard only" list just because I am so bad with sounds (I am totally tone deaf, to the extent that often surprises people who aren't and can't imagine that it's even possible to be this oblivious to tones, and as a bonus, my hearing at the age of 40 is like a 70-year old man).
I know I have made this point many times already, but I also like to remain that insisting on sightings as opposed to hearing is bad for conservation and bird welfare.
I know I have made this point many times already, but I also like to remain that insisting on sightings as opposed to hearing is bad for conservation and bird welfare.
lgonz1008
Well-known member
We did get all 3 potential Hyrax species in Kenya, but outside of Tree, the other two were definitely ID by location.
But let's not overtake this chat with mammal sightings.
qwerty5
Controversial opinion generator
It's probably because as humans our primary sense is sight. Sound doesn't play as big of a part in our perception of the world, at least in my estimation. I do count heard-only, because I find no good reason not to, as long as I am confident with the ID. But the tick is not near as fulfilling as a sight tick.
YuShan
Well-known member
'Heard only' is of course valid if your goal is establishing whether a certain species is present. However, for me from a birding hobby perspective it feels like a lesser category and therefore I don't count 'Heard Only'. If I go to a tropical forest, I can easily hear quite a few birds that require a lot of effort to actually see. The same is true with nocturnal birds. I could tick them off without even leaving my tent. That just feels wrong.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
The clue is in the name of our hobby, bird 'watching'. Most people consider that HO records represent laziness, some birds are so tough to see that it's considered a real achievement to sight them.
There is one guy, American I believe who has a very big list of night birds but, many are HO and if he can hear them from his vehicle, he won't even get out. His contemporaries by contrast, go to great lengths, to actually see a bird and most people would consider this to be more desirable and indeed, more satisfactory.
I include HO records in reports but none are on my life totals unless seen.
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MiddleRiver
Well-known member
spot on ;-)
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