mTown
Well-known member
Without citing a source, how can you be so sure that the binoculars are certainly not made in Germany?
According to Steiner's FAQ, all binoculars are made in Germany: https://www.steiner-optics.com/faqs
@Sterngucker
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Value sweet spot? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JasIA
- Start date
According to Steiner's FAQ, all binoculars are made in Germany: https://www.steiner-optics.com/faqs
@Sterngucker
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
For me durability is quite a big factor - like some others here, I can't see much of a practical optical advantage in binos over around EUR500. But I do find that the cheaper (0-200) models I've had in the past have all got knocked out of alignment/ broken/fogged at some stage. I have a pair of Nikon Prostaff 8X40 for a few years and quite honestly haven't yet felt the need to upgrade. I'll have to wait until my birding ability is so good that my failure to notice or identify a bird is due to the quality of my optics! At the rate I'm going that will never happen 
Of course only 10% of the work has to be done in Germany to be called MIG according to EU regulations. This could be putting on eyecups, QC and packaging. Hard to believe their lower end binos are made in Germany with cost of labor there. Hard to say for sure.
Everybody has different likes/dislikes in bins...this i think we can all agree on?
For me the sweet spot is about $800-1k. You don't get much when you go above that 1kish mark. That said some bins simply punch above their weight class. For ME...that would be the Tract Torric UHT. Ive yet to look through a bin at any price i felt was measurably better and I've looked through a lot.
Another is the Monarch 5 8x42. Far and away the best bin under $500 I've ever looked through and they are a long way under $500. MeoStar comes to mind. Ive got the 8x42 and 8x32 and both are pretty darn spectacular...one could say alpha quality and not get any argument from me.
On the flip side I had a pair of Wildlife XP Steiners that had a retail of over 2k...alpha pricing...and i preferred the Monarch 5 to them so go figure. FOV was bigger on the XP but the Nikon was better in all other regards...and they were both poly bodies LOL
I guess my point is 3 smart and experienced people can look through 3 different bins and disagree. Blondes vs. Brunettes etc...
For me the sweet spot is about $800-1k. You don't get much when you go above that 1kish mark. That said some bins simply punch above their weight class. For ME...that would be the Tract Torric UHT. Ive yet to look through a bin at any price i felt was measurably better and I've looked through a lot.
Another is the Monarch 5 8x42. Far and away the best bin under $500 I've ever looked through and they are a long way under $500. MeoStar comes to mind. Ive got the 8x42 and 8x32 and both are pretty darn spectacular...one could say alpha quality and not get any argument from me.
On the flip side I had a pair of Wildlife XP Steiners that had a retail of over 2k...alpha pricing...and i preferred the Monarch 5 to them so go figure. FOV was bigger on the XP but the Nikon was better in all other regards...and they were both poly bodies LOL
I guess my point is 3 smart and experienced people can look through 3 different bins and disagree. Blondes vs. Brunettes etc...
The Wildlife XP are definitely an example of poor performance for the price. They have the worst internal reflection I have ever experienced in any optics.
Their predecessor the, the Peregrine XP in North America or Discovery in Europe, was however an example of excellent price and performance ratio. After their pricing stabilized and dropped down to or below $1000 USD they were a bargain. First generation Swarovski EL performance for significantly less money.
Sometimes a company knocks it out of the ballpark, and sometimes they completely fumble the ball.
CharleyBird
Well-known member
Steiner obfuscation is irritating.
The XP Peregrine/Discovery are good binoculars but are prone to veiling glare pointing towards sun. They have imprinted on the body 'Steiner' and 'Germany' , but nowhere in the instruction brochure or box or anywhere do they actually say 'Made in Germany'. I liked them enough to buy two pairs of 10x and an 8x. If you want my opinion they are probably more than 90% made in China, where Steiner have partners. They have some very nice things about them and were worth every penny of £600 each. The RRP was around £1300.
It would seem that Steiner have simply stopped putting MIG on any of their binoculars? They can say the binoculars are German, of German design, german this that and the other, but I simply don't believe the FAQ statement referred to above.
The XP Peregrine/Discovery are good binoculars but are prone to veiling glare pointing towards sun. They have imprinted on the body 'Steiner' and 'Germany' , but nowhere in the instruction brochure or box or anywhere do they actually say 'Made in Germany'. I liked them enough to buy two pairs of 10x and an 8x. If you want my opinion they are probably more than 90% made in China, where Steiner have partners. They have some very nice things about them and were worth every penny of £600 each. The RRP was around £1300.
It would seem that Steiner have simply stopped putting MIG on any of their binoculars? They can say the binoculars are German, of German design, german this that and the other, but I simply don't believe the FAQ statement referred to above.
I literally laughed out loud at this. I completely agree. It’s a numbers game for them. And unfortunately for the consumer, it is not one where we get the pleasure of having new and greatly improved models come to light. Rather it is one where they are able to pump out cheap binos in heaps to fill their military contracts and sell by the boatload to people for use on their yachts and sailboats. The general population probably doesn’t care about where their binoculars say they were made so long as they simply magnify the image and do what they are made to do.
I don't think for a second they are made in Germany either. If they were to any significant degree they would be shouting it from the roof top. They have a german name...say germany on the binocular...just enough to insinuate german mfg.
Everyone knows it doesn't take much to say M.I.G. these days...my thought has always been steiner doesn't want people looking into it too much. Their rifle scopes for the most part do not say M.I.G either.
Everyone knows it doesn't take much to say M.I.G. these days...my thought has always been steiner doesn't want people looking into it too much. Their rifle scopes for the most part do not say M.I.G either.
Steiner makes a lot of their bins in Germany. All of them, probably not. However, as long as Steiner keeps the Quality Control high, where they are made shouldn't affect their overall performance.
I'm not a fan of China and its policies but, China is capable of making very high-quality products if someone is willing to pay them for that quality. Like Japan and Korea in times past, China is known for super cheap low-quality junk but, like Japan and Korea, they appear to be on a similar trajectory towards high tech and high-quality production.
I'm not a fan of China and its policies but, China is capable of making very high-quality products if someone is willing to pay them for that quality. Like Japan and Korea in times past, China is known for super cheap low-quality junk but, like Japan and Korea, they appear to be on a similar trajectory towards high tech and high-quality production.
mTown
Well-known member
Would you still recommend the Discovery XP/Peregrine XP 8x44/10x44 today or would you call them obsolete? I know that these types have been replaced by the Wildlife XP since about 2015(?), but there are still a few new ones here in Germany for the price of about EUR 750 - 800/Pounds 650 - 700.
I currently own, since I started birdwatching, only a couple of Nikon Prostaff 7s 8x30, with which I am still very satisfied, although the low price. However, the image is then a bit too dark for me in the evening. Therefore, I am looking for a pair of binoculars that will accompany me for the next 10 years or so, in the price range of about EUR 500-800/Pound 450-800. As a really hobby birdwatcher (just for fun), I don't think I need more. The current choices are the Discovery XP/Peregrine XP 8x44/10x44 mentioned above, the Steiner Wildlife 8x42 (which did well at @binomania .it), the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 or the Leica Trinovid 8x42.
Last edited:
mTown
Well-known member
I was also interested in this, so I simply asked Steiner Germany about it. According to their statement, all their binoculars are "made in Germany", i.e. e.g. lenses are manufactured and polished here and the individual parts are assembled and tested. However, individual parts such as the body and rubber coating are bought in. I would not have thought.
Last edited:
John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi mTown,
I'm not really surprised at what Steiner has said, since binoculars are complex devices requiring a wide variety of components, that in turn require various specialised skills and equipment to produce. To give some idea of the complexities involved, see the following about Swarovski's production:
So Steiner’s claim that their binoculars are 'made in Germany' (or Swarovski’s claim that theirs are 'made in Austria') is in a sense ultimately a matter of degree. Though clearly either is a very long way from just assembling finished components made by others.
John
I'm not really surprised at what Steiner has said, since binoculars are complex devices requiring a wide variety of components, that in turn require various specialised skills and equipment to produce. To give some idea of the complexities involved, see the following about Swarovski's production:
So Steiner’s claim that their binoculars are 'made in Germany' (or Swarovski’s claim that theirs are 'made in Austria') is in a sense ultimately a matter of degree. Though clearly either is a very long way from just assembling finished components made by others.
John
Last edited:
CharleyBird
Well-known member
You'd have to try them, and see if you're happy with the weight and haptics. The view is certainly not obsolete as I still happily use mine, though all the latest NL/SF/NV are notably a bit better of course.
Briefly, back in the Noughties I reckon Steiner had taken a good look at the competition from Zeiss (body feel) & Swaro (view feel) roofs of the time, and gave it their best effort. For me they are comfortable & solid, giving an excellent view shielded by the fold-up eyeshades. But if you usually go out at sunsrise/sunset be warned, as I said before, they are prone to veiling glare when viewing with low sun near the objectives.
Of the three XP, two have been sent back with cracked twist-up plastic oculars (though they could still be used), and one with very minor armour peeling. Lifetime warranty. Let me put it this way, they are itemised in my LW&T to be given to nieces when I fall off the twig (fingers crossed in about 25 years).
Ah... the price point which economists call the "point of diminishing returns".
It will vary according to your pocketbook, but as others have mentioned, for me that's around $1000. Zeiss Conquest HD, Leica Trinovid HD, and a few others occupy this position in the market.
You can be exceptionally well-served at this price point.
If you more than double that, yes, you can see some minor increase in image quality by going with $2000+ alphas. But the "value sweet spot" as you call it is, in my view, at $1000. Conquest HD are some very fine binoculars! Same with Trinovid HD.
Got the bucks? Don't mind spending it? Peel off $2000+ and there are some very fine choices to be had.
It will vary according to your pocketbook, but as others have mentioned, for me that's around $1000. Zeiss Conquest HD, Leica Trinovid HD, and a few others occupy this position in the market.
You can be exceptionally well-served at this price point.
If you more than double that, yes, you can see some minor increase in image quality by going with $2000+ alphas. But the "value sweet spot" as you call it is, in my view, at $1000. Conquest HD are some very fine binoculars! Same with Trinovid HD.
Got the bucks? Don't mind spending it? Peel off $2000+ and there are some very fine choices to be had.
oldfortyfive
Well-known member
My 2 cents.....I have binoculars from under $100 to $3000. I like them all. Try and then buy what works for you and don't pay too much attention all of us.
This is an extremely interesting thread. It is actually the core question I have at the moment. I want a 8x32 glass and have no fixed budget. On the other hand, while I appreciate quality, I am not a total optics freak and wonder if the improvements of a 1000 Euro optic vs. a 500 one would really matter so much to me. I agree, the best thing would be to just try different optics, but unfortunately I do not have this possibility at the moment.
I liked this post:
"Thanks to the explosion of Chinese outsourced manufacturing, in terms of central (on axis) brightness / clarity / resolution, which is what normal non-optics-obsessed people care about, the gains start getting incremental after the $300-500 level. You have to really be serious about birding and/or optics to truly need anything beyond that."
Would you still agree that this is true? Or can quality be had for even less today?
"Thanks to the explosion of Chinese outsourced manufacturing, in terms of central (on axis) brightness / clarity / resolution, which is what normal non-optics-obsessed people care about, the gains start getting incremental after the $300-500 level. You have to really be serious about birding and/or optics to truly need anything beyond that."
Would you still agree that this is true? Or can quality be had for even less today?
Similar threads
